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The German policy of more or less unconditional support for Israel is plain stupid. This policy exists because of the horrors that Germans have inflicted upon J

The German policy of more or less unconditional support for Israel is plain stupid. This policy exists because of the horrors that Germans have inflicted upon Jews but it now supports similar [1] horrors inflicted by Israelis upon Palestinians. I can not wrap my head around that. If anything, Germany should try to stop Israel with all available means to protect them from themselves. Germany should do the same as Ireland and so should everyone else. [1] Feel free to mentally replace similar with any other word that you think more accurately compares the two scenarios.

dfxm12 1y ago
It's frustrating because Israelis and Jews are distinct peoples. This unwavering support for Israel doesn't even necessarily help Jews.
- piltdownman 1y ago
  The Ultra-Orthodox can't even join the IDF. The issue is that the US HR Bill passed which legally equated Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism, and the US control the narrative in the english-speaking world around the Genocide. It's Orwellian in the extreme. https://www.thefire.org/news/combat-anti-semitism-house-bill-chips-away-free-speech https://www.thefire.org/news/combat-anti-semitism-house-bill... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-controversial-bill-that-expands-definition-of-anti-semitism https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-cont...
- clot27 1y ago
  conflating jews with israel is biggest anti semitic thing one can do
  - hn_go_brrrrr 1y ago
    This statement betrays a deep lack of imagination about other things one could do against Jews. Killing them, for instance, or putting them in concentration camps are both far worse than any association you might choose to make with Israel.
    - clot27 1y ago
      right shouldve said one of the biggest poor wording
    - anonair 1y ago
      I would argue it doesn't, because both cases are examples of guilt by association. One is history, the other is manufactured by israel
piltdownman 1y ago
It's very easy to wrap your head around - Germany is Israel's main arms supplier after the US. Germany accounted for 30% of Israel's arms imports between 2019 and 2023. In 2023 it accounted for 47% of Israel's total imports of conventional arms. Between October 2023 and May 2025, Germany greenlighted the delivery of weapons and military equipment worth €485m to Israel They since stopped the export of weaponry 'used in gaza' but it's naive in the extreme to accept assurances from the incumbent Israeli government to the contrary. https://news.sky.com/story/germany-is-one-of-israels-strongest-allies-so-stopping-export-of-arms-that-could-be-used-in-gaza-is-huge-shift-13408611 https://news.sky.com/story/germany-is-one-of-israels-stronge... N.B. Israel continues to illegally carry weapons through Irish airspace, and kindly refers our government agency to El Al's Legal department on inquiry. https://www.ontheditch.com/israels-national-airline-department-transport/ https://www.ontheditch.com/israels-national-airline-departme...
- danbruc 1y ago
  That does not seem like nearly enough money to make a bad policy decision because of the money and that policy is probably much older than the arms deals.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    > That does not seem like nearly enough money Because that's not the reason (Israel primarily imports weaponry and munitions from the US and India [0]). The issue is the other way around. A significant portion of Germany's ground AD and defensive systems are sourced from Israel- most notably the Arrow 3 missile shield [1] deal that recently went through. Germany is heavily dependent on Israeli cybersecurity companies as well [2]. Germany is also subsidizing Arrow 3 sales to Ukraine [3]. Protecting your nations citizens always trumps morality, and in Germany's case, it's become even more critical after what happened in Poland this week. [0] - https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs17/import/isr/show/199301.199305.199306.199302.199303/2023 https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs17/import/isr/show... [1] - https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/06/09/israel-enters-final-phase-to-deliver-arrow-3-missile-shield-to-germany/ https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/06/09/israel-... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-seeks-israeli-partnership-cyberdefence-plans-cyber-dome-2025-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-s... [3] - https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/israel-sells-missiles-to-germany-as-ukraine-war-fuels-demand-for-weapons-b32b685d?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAjMWTMaqyTnW9sGUWDeYndDj3_dU158DX8N6ED161JPTXbjcK0QUwqK&gaa_ts=68c2d38d&gaa_sig=NlBM1BTsi6zhpH5eG4KZ7s-tGsiPd45EO2aPKS6di5b9IGvFStrG66lw8Rx-c1Ro-D-KAkz3cIEvP_d4rx5RiQ%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/israel-sells-missiles-to-ge...
germandiago 1y ago
> but it now supports similar [1] horrors inflicted by Israelis upon Palestinians I would say that Israel is historically worried about the fact that his enemies want it to make it disappear. There are many things to criticize from them but this is the basic premise.
- noboostforyou 1y ago
  Do you think that historical worry justifies the tens of thousands of children they are currently killing? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/israel-gaza-war-children-death-toll/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/israel...
- 0points 1y ago
  It seems they no longer care if their actions make the general public sympathetic to this cause, which is rather troubling for a bystander.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- sirfz 1y ago
  I'd say the people that are historically and actively actually being disappeared are the Palestinians, the premise is that Israel since inception wants (edit: is) to eradicate Palestinians
  - germandiago 1y ago
    If they wanted that, it would have happened already.
    - sirfz 1y ago
      That's precisely why it's happening, unfortunately
- danbruc 1y ago
catlikesshrimp 1y ago
Remember there are are radical nationalist / racist / xenophobic groups in germany / anywhere. Such groups are so strong in Germany that Hitler used them to strenghten the power of his discourse. Recognizing Israel / the Jews are the ones now doing Genocide would *in the sight of the extremist groups* prove their belief that Hitler was right / the Jews are the devil. (I repeat, in their regard, not mine) Therefore, my opinion is that the official stance in Germany must be "historical responsability" mainly not for the sake of the Jews, but for the stability of the society.
- tdeck 1y ago
  Don't you think there's a risk that denying a genocide everyone can see with their own eyes will feed into antisemitic conspiracy theories?
  - catlikesshrimp 1y ago
    Yes, they are alreading sharpening their forks and oiling their torches. I think officially recognizing it ("Jews are bad") will drive normal people to don't consider them (the extremists / nazi) conspiracy nuts anymore, because of a "they / we were right all the time" discourse. I apologize for basically repeating myself. I just wanted to refer to the conspiracy theories you mentioned because calling them that is, ironically, constructive.
    - tdeck 1y ago
      Officially recognizing the genocide is not the same as saying "Jews are bad".
      - exodust 1y ago
        You'd think those suffering genocide would do the one thing to stop it, namely releasing the hostages and ceasing their own officially chartered genocidal ambitions.
csomar 1y ago
Can’t get rid of your jews if there is no place to move them to since Auschwitz is no longer an option.
zeristor 1y ago
Germany also felt guilty about the invasion of Russia. I understand this to be one of the reasons why Germany was keen to buy Russian guess, to make amends. On the flip side Germany did a huge amount to bring solar power into large scale usage.

dfxm12 1y ago

It's frustrating because Israelis and Jews are distinct peoples. This unwavering support for Israel doesn't even necessarily help Jews.

piltdownman 1y ago
The Ultra-Orthodox can't even join the IDF. The issue is that the US HR Bill passed which legally equated Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism, and the US control the narrative in the english-speaking world around the Genocide. It's Orwellian in the extreme. https://www.thefire.org/news/combat-anti-semitism-house-bill-chips-away-free-speech https://www.thefire.org/news/combat-anti-semitism-house-bill... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-controversial-bill-that-expands-definition-of-anti-semitism https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-cont...
clot27 1y ago
conflating jews with israel is biggest anti semitic thing one can do
- hn_go_brrrrr 1y ago
  This statement betrays a deep lack of imagination about other things one could do against Jews. Killing them, for instance, or putting them in concentration camps are both far worse than any association you might choose to make with Israel.
  - clot27 1y ago
    right shouldve said one of the biggest poor wording
  - anonair 1y ago
    I would argue it doesn't, because both cases are examples of guilt by association. One is history, the other is manufactured by israel

piltdownman 1y ago

It's very easy to wrap your head around - Germany is Israel's main arms supplier after the US. Germany accounted for 30% of Israel's arms imports between 2019 and 2023. In 2023 it accounted for 47% of Israel's total imports of conventional arms. Between October 2023 and May 2025, Germany greenlighted the delivery of weapons and military equipment worth €485m to Israel They since stopped the export of weaponry 'used in gaza' but it's naive in the extreme to accept assurances from the incumbent Israeli government to the contrary. https://news.sky.com/story/germany-is-one-of-israels-strongest-allies-so-stopping-export-of-arms-that-could-be-used-in-gaza-is-huge-shift-13408611 https://news.sky.com/story/germany-is-one-of-israels-stronge... N.B. Israel continues to illegally carry weapons through Irish airspace, and kindly refers our government agency to El Al's Legal department on inquiry. https://www.ontheditch.com/israels-national-airline-department-transport/ https://www.ontheditch.com/israels-national-airline-departme...

danbruc 1y ago
That does not seem like nearly enough money to make a bad policy decision because of the money and that policy is probably much older than the arms deals.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  > That does not seem like nearly enough money Because that's not the reason (Israel primarily imports weaponry and munitions from the US and India [0]). The issue is the other way around. A significant portion of Germany's ground AD and defensive systems are sourced from Israel- most notably the Arrow 3 missile shield [1] deal that recently went through. Germany is heavily dependent on Israeli cybersecurity companies as well [2]. Germany is also subsidizing Arrow 3 sales to Ukraine [3]. Protecting your nations citizens always trumps morality, and in Germany's case, it's become even more critical after what happened in Poland this week. [0] - https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs17/import/isr/show/199301.199305.199306.199302.199303/2023 https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs17/import/isr/show... [1] - https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/06/09/israel-enters-final-phase-to-deliver-arrow-3-missile-shield-to-germany/ https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/06/09/israel-... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-seeks-israeli-partnership-cyberdefence-plans-cyber-dome-2025-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-s... [3] - https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/israel-sells-missiles-to-germany-as-ukraine-war-fuels-demand-for-weapons-b32b685d?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAjMWTMaqyTnW9sGUWDeYndDj3_dU158DX8N6ED161JPTXbjcK0QUwqK&gaa_ts=68c2d38d&gaa_sig=NlBM1BTsi6zhpH5eG4KZ7s-tGsiPd45EO2aPKS6di5b9IGvFStrG66lw8Rx-c1Ro-D-KAkz3cIEvP_d4rx5RiQ%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/israel-sells-missiles-to-ge...

germandiago 1y ago

> but it now supports similar [1] horrors inflicted by Israelis upon Palestinians I would say that Israel is historically worried about the fact that his enemies want it to make it disappear. There are many things to criticize from them but this is the basic premise.

noboostforyou 1y ago
Do you think that historical worry justifies the tens of thousands of children they are currently killing? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/israel-gaza-war-children-death-toll/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/israel...
0points 1y ago
It seems they no longer care if their actions make the general public sympathetic to this cause, which is rather troubling for a bystander.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
sirfz 1y ago
I'd say the people that are historically and actively actually being disappeared are the Palestinians, the premise is that Israel since inception wants (edit: is) to eradicate Palestinians
- germandiago 1y ago
  If they wanted that, it would have happened already.
  - sirfz 1y ago
    That's precisely why it's happening, unfortunately
danbruc 1y ago

catlikesshrimp 1y ago

Remember there are are radical nationalist / racist / xenophobic groups in germany / anywhere. Such groups are so strong in Germany that Hitler used them to strenghten the power of his discourse. Recognizing Israel / the Jews are the ones now doing Genocide would *in the sight of the extremist groups* prove their belief that Hitler was right / the Jews are the devil. (I repeat, in their regard, not mine) Therefore, my opinion is that the official stance in Germany must be "historical responsability" mainly not for the sake of the Jews, but for the stability of the society.

tdeck 1y ago
Don't you think there's a risk that denying a genocide everyone can see with their own eyes will feed into antisemitic conspiracy theories?
- catlikesshrimp 1y ago
  Yes, they are alreading sharpening their forks and oiling their torches. I think officially recognizing it ("Jews are bad") will drive normal people to don't consider them (the extremists / nazi) conspiracy nuts anymore, because of a "they / we were right all the time" discourse. I apologize for basically repeating myself. I just wanted to refer to the conspiracy theories you mentioned because calling them that is, ironically, constructive.
  - tdeck 1y ago
    Officially recognizing the genocide is not the same as saying "Jews are bad".
    - exodust 1y ago
      You'd think those suffering genocide would do the one thing to stop it, namely releasing the hostages and ceasing their own officially chartered genocidal ambitions.

csomar 1y ago

Can’t get rid of your jews if there is no place to move them to since Auschwitz is no longer an option.

zeristor 1y ago

Germany also felt guilty about the invasion of Russia. I understand this to be one of the reasons why Germany was keen to buy Russian guess, to make amends. On the flip side Germany did a huge amount to bring solar power into large scale usage.