5 ms·

The bill of rights are about personal freedoms, as is made clear during the discussion leading up to them. All states copied these in some form into their own c

The bill of rights are about personal freedoms, as is made clear during the discussion leading up to them. All states copied these in some form into their own constitutions, and if you go look at those, most are quite explicit this is a personal right. The claim otherwise is a very recent claim. Congress around 1982 had the Library of Congress issue a study about this in great depth, with millions of citations to historical documents, which give ample evidence and quotes. You may have to dig to find it, but it's a good read to gain more understanding. Also the second militia act of 1792 actually required all able bodied men to own guns, and this was the law for well over the following century. The founders had no qualms about everyone having arms.

paulryanrogers 1y ago
> The founders had no qualms about everyone having arms. Thankfully, whatever they meant then, we live today and can change the constitution and the laws to suit present circumstances. Nothing is sacred.
- artificialLimbs 1y ago
  >> Nothing is sacred. This is the thought process of the morally depraved, upon which every tyrannical government establishes its power.
  - paulryanrogers 1y ago
    Please help me understand what must be kept sacred.
    - artificialLimbs 1y ago
      [dead]
      - paulryanrogers 1y ago
        I've read the Bible at least four times. I'd rather not stone people for being born different. Nor inspire PTSD in children or adults with silly stories about punishment in eternal flames. Good and evil are even more subjective than how people perceive colors. I hope we can at least agree that murder is wrong, and the tools which facilitate the most murder should be the most heavily regulated.
        artificialLimbs 1y ago
        Might have read it but clearly didn't understand the point of the sacrifice and the new covenant. You shouldn't be telling young children they're going to burn in hell for eternity any more than you should talk to them about sex. Murder is wrong. Every citizen worth a damn should own guns and the idea that they should not be regulated by the government is enshrined in the 2nd amendment to the US constitution. Every gun law created since is an abberation that should be abolished.
        paulryanrogers 1y ago
        The first three words of 2A is "A well regulated...". IDK where this idea comes from that guns cannot be regulated. Shall we say prisoners have the right to bear arms? Felons with a violent past? People with mental illness? Surely there must be limits. Few rights are absolute in every circumstance.
        artificialLimbs 1y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about when you decide that 'well regulated' means what you think it means. It is because you have done no research on the topic. Here: https://www.heritage.org/the-essential-second-amendment/the-well-regulated-militia https://www.heritage.org/the-essential-second-amendment/the-... If a person shouldn't have firearms, then they shouldn't be on the street. They should be in jail/prison. Period. I don't know that anyone that has argued that prisoners should have guns. You would have to be a fool. If a person shouldn't have access to guns, then they shouldn't have access to any other freedom. The ultimate purpose of owning firearms is to fight a tyrannical government. For that purpose, less limits is better for the people. This right is absolute, and anyone espousing otherwise is a tyrant or a fool.
ryan_lane 1y ago
I'm not personally against individuals owning guns, but the part that is somehow vehemently opposed is the "well-regulated" part. There's effectively no regulation, and somehow the 2nd amendment has been warped to leave out the part of regulation, to make folks believe they're entitled to guns without limit.
- SideQuark 1y ago
  "well regulated" applies not to guns but to militias, and has nothing to do with legal restrictions. It means well functioning, well trained, efficient. It has nothing to do with legal regulations. The word has many meanings. Learn which one the phrase in the Constitution is using.
  - ryan_lane 1y ago
    So you're saying that we should be able to add training requirements to use a firearm, if well-regulated means "well functioning, well trained, efficient". Similar to how we require folks to show they know how to properly drive a car before we allow them on the road?

paulryanrogers 1y ago

> The founders had no qualms about everyone having arms. Thankfully, whatever they meant then, we live today and can change the constitution and the laws to suit present circumstances. Nothing is sacred.

artificialLimbs 1y ago
>> Nothing is sacred. This is the thought process of the morally depraved, upon which every tyrannical government establishes its power.
- paulryanrogers 1y ago
  Please help me understand what must be kept sacred.
  - artificialLimbs 1y ago
    [dead]
    - paulryanrogers 1y ago
      I've read the Bible at least four times. I'd rather not stone people for being born different. Nor inspire PTSD in children or adults with silly stories about punishment in eternal flames. Good and evil are even more subjective than how people perceive colors. I hope we can at least agree that murder is wrong, and the tools which facilitate the most murder should be the most heavily regulated.
      - artificialLimbs 1y ago
        Might have read it but clearly didn't understand the point of the sacrifice and the new covenant. You shouldn't be telling young children they're going to burn in hell for eternity any more than you should talk to them about sex. Murder is wrong. Every citizen worth a damn should own guns and the idea that they should not be regulated by the government is enshrined in the 2nd amendment to the US constitution. Every gun law created since is an abberation that should be abolished.
        paulryanrogers 1y ago
        The first three words of 2A is "A well regulated...". IDK where this idea comes from that guns cannot be regulated. Shall we say prisoners have the right to bear arms? Felons with a violent past? People with mental illness? Surely there must be limits. Few rights are absolute in every circumstance.
        artificialLimbs 1y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about when you decide that 'well regulated' means what you think it means. It is because you have done no research on the topic. Here: https://www.heritage.org/the-essential-second-amendment/the-well-regulated-militia https://www.heritage.org/the-essential-second-amendment/the-... If a person shouldn't have firearms, then they shouldn't be on the street. They should be in jail/prison. Period. I don't know that anyone that has argued that prisoners should have guns. You would have to be a fool. If a person shouldn't have access to guns, then they shouldn't have access to any other freedom. The ultimate purpose of owning firearms is to fight a tyrannical government. For that purpose, less limits is better for the people. This right is absolute, and anyone espousing otherwise is a tyrant or a fool.

ryan_lane 1y ago

I'm not personally against individuals owning guns, but the part that is somehow vehemently opposed is the "well-regulated" part. There's effectively no regulation, and somehow the 2nd amendment has been warped to leave out the part of regulation, to make folks believe they're entitled to guns without limit.

SideQuark 1y ago
"well regulated" applies not to guns but to militias, and has nothing to do with legal restrictions. It means well functioning, well trained, efficient. It has nothing to do with legal regulations. The word has many meanings. Learn which one the phrase in the Constitution is using.
- ryan_lane 1y ago
  So you're saying that we should be able to add training requirements to use a firearm, if well-regulated means "well functioning, well trained, efficient". Similar to how we require folks to show they know how to properly drive a car before we allow them on the road?