6 ms·

If you think this is absurd, this is how I feel, coming from a non-tipping country, when I read about the tipping culture in the US.

epolanski 1y ago
The toxic tipping culture is spilling abroad too. Several restaurant owners are advocating in Italy to make 20% tips mandatory so they can reduce their costs.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  It's not "spilling abroad". Italy had tips built into their bills when I went there over 20 years ago.
  - mystifyingpoi 1y ago
    That's just paying with extra steps.
  - epolanski 1y ago
    Nonsense. What you're referring to as "tip", is the coperto. It's a minimal, fixed, optional fee that includes service, bread and table setting. Not every place makes you pay it, it's more common in more expensive restaurants, but still, it ranges from 0 to an average 2 euros per person. Comparing it to %-based mandatory tips in US is nonsense.
  - kamma4434 1y ago
    In Italy tips are never required as are a part of what you pay for. You leave a tip for outstanding service if you want, but it’s neither mandated nor customary.
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      No one's saying they're required. When you say it's not customary, how do you reconcile that with it being printed as part of the bill?
      - sebtron 1y ago
        If it is printed on the bill it is not a tip. You must be talking about "coperto", i.e. servics costs. This money does goes to the waiter.
  - stefantalpalaru 1y ago
    [dead]
tirant 1y ago
Tipping has a powerful advantage: it aligns the incentives of customers and servers almost perfectly. Because tips aren’t capped, waiters are motivated to go above and beyond to satisfy each guest. Without tipping, the server’s motivation often drops to providing only adequate service—more in line with the restaurant’s interests than with each individual diner’s needs. You can see this difference in customer experience worldwide. Nowhere delivers consistently attentive service quite like the US. By contrast, many European countries, especially those where tipping is uncommon (such as the Netherlands), often provide service that feels efficient but impersonal.
- malnourish 1y ago
  Personally, I could do without hyper-attentive wait staff. Dining out in Italy is phenomenal for many reasons, a laid back serving culture is just one of them.
  - Yeul 1y ago
    As a Dutch person I despise fake smiles and servile attitude.Especially when it is bought with money.
    - goodpoint 1y ago
      In US I got exaggerated smiles with *winks* from waitresses. No, they were not genuinely flirting with me.
- mxfh 1y ago
  That's anectdotal. There is literally zero alignment or correlation between tipping and good service. You want to have a stress free experience the waiters tries to upsell you at every corner. If you mistake upselling for attention then you're part of the tipping complex already. Good service comes from good training and experience not the assumed money left over in your wallet. That's the businesses goal of not leaving any money on the table. So the alignment is between the business owner and the employee if anything, not between employee and customer. I would make an exception for bars, but that's about it.
gchamonlive 1y ago
Yeah, it's optional but if you don't tip everybody loses their minds. I've experienced this once abroad, I was with a group of exchange students that didn't want to pay the tip because students are always broke, and the cashier was mad to the point of being aggressive. In Brazil we have 10% tip which you can opt out, and we usually do it when there is a problem with the service, but I wouldn't think twice to ask for the tip to be excluded if I was undergoing financial hardships, and I'm sure nobody would bat an eye. I think it's not just the tip culture that is toxic. I feel like the entire American culture is plagued by toxic masculinity, the gun culture and hyper individuality.
- brookst 1y ago
  I don’t disagree with your diagnosis of American culture, but the tip thing is just shifting wages from employer to customer. It’s no different from VAT versus sales tax: same result, different math. Opting not to tip when it is part of the economic transaction is no different from walking out with the silverware; not expressly forbidden, just a breach of social contract.
  - gchamonlive 1y ago
    Then why call it a tip? It's just cynical then, which I don't know what's worse.
    - brookst 1y ago
      Plenty of customs don’t make logical sense, and plenty of words have dramatically changed meaning over time. Don’t read too much into the word. A “fine” used to mean a voluntary settlement.
      - gchamonlive 1y ago
        You are right, I wasn't really thinking about how customs evolve organically. Outrage kinda blinded me because that experience was such a culture clash that clouded my understanding. Thanks. I mean, I still feel like using the word "tip" for something that is culturally not optional, even though you can opt out, is unnecessarily confusing and hostile, but that's what respecting foreign culture is all about.

epolanski 1y ago

The toxic tipping culture is spilling abroad too. Several restaurant owners are advocating in Italy to make 20% tips mandatory so they can reduce their costs.

robertlagrant 1y ago
It's not "spilling abroad". Italy had tips built into their bills when I went there over 20 years ago.
- mystifyingpoi 1y ago
  That's just paying with extra steps.
- epolanski 1y ago
  Nonsense. What you're referring to as "tip", is the coperto. It's a minimal, fixed, optional fee that includes service, bread and table setting. Not every place makes you pay it, it's more common in more expensive restaurants, but still, it ranges from 0 to an average 2 euros per person. Comparing it to %-based mandatory tips in US is nonsense.
- kamma4434 1y ago
  In Italy tips are never required as are a part of what you pay for. You leave a tip for outstanding service if you want, but it’s neither mandated nor customary.
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    No one's saying they're required. When you say it's not customary, how do you reconcile that with it being printed as part of the bill?
    - sebtron 1y ago
      If it is printed on the bill it is not a tip. You must be talking about "coperto", i.e. servics costs. This money does goes to the waiter.
- stefantalpalaru 1y ago
  [dead]

tirant 1y ago

Tipping has a powerful advantage: it aligns the incentives of customers and servers almost perfectly. Because tips aren’t capped, waiters are motivated to go above and beyond to satisfy each guest. Without tipping, the server’s motivation often drops to providing only adequate service—more in line with the restaurant’s interests than with each individual diner’s needs. You can see this difference in customer experience worldwide. Nowhere delivers consistently attentive service quite like the US. By contrast, many European countries, especially those where tipping is uncommon (such as the Netherlands), often provide service that feels efficient but impersonal.

malnourish 1y ago
Personally, I could do without hyper-attentive wait staff. Dining out in Italy is phenomenal for many reasons, a laid back serving culture is just one of them.
- Yeul 1y ago
  As a Dutch person I despise fake smiles and servile attitude.Especially when it is bought with money.
  - goodpoint 1y ago
    In US I got exaggerated smiles with *winks* from waitresses. No, they were not genuinely flirting with me.
mxfh 1y ago
That's anectdotal. There is literally zero alignment or correlation between tipping and good service. You want to have a stress free experience the waiters tries to upsell you at every corner. If you mistake upselling for attention then you're part of the tipping complex already. Good service comes from good training and experience not the assumed money left over in your wallet. That's the businesses goal of not leaving any money on the table. So the alignment is between the business owner and the employee if anything, not between employee and customer. I would make an exception for bars, but that's about it.

gchamonlive 1y ago

Yeah, it's optional but if you don't tip everybody loses their minds. I've experienced this once abroad, I was with a group of exchange students that didn't want to pay the tip because students are always broke, and the cashier was mad to the point of being aggressive. In Brazil we have 10% tip which you can opt out, and we usually do it when there is a problem with the service, but I wouldn't think twice to ask for the tip to be excluded if I was undergoing financial hardships, and I'm sure nobody would bat an eye. I think it's not just the tip culture that is toxic. I feel like the entire American culture is plagued by toxic masculinity, the gun culture and hyper individuality.

brookst 1y ago
I don’t disagree with your diagnosis of American culture, but the tip thing is just shifting wages from employer to customer. It’s no different from VAT versus sales tax: same result, different math. Opting not to tip when it is part of the economic transaction is no different from walking out with the silverware; not expressly forbidden, just a breach of social contract.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  Then why call it a tip? It's just cynical then, which I don't know what's worse.
  - brookst 1y ago
    Plenty of customs don’t make logical sense, and plenty of words have dramatically changed meaning over time. Don’t read too much into the word. A “fine” used to mean a voluntary settlement.
    - gchamonlive 1y ago
      You are right, I wasn't really thinking about how customs evolve organically. Outrage kinda blinded me because that experience was such a culture clash that clouded my understanding. Thanks. I mean, I still feel like using the word "tip" for something that is culturally not optional, even though you can opt out, is unnecessarily confusing and hostile, but that's what respecting foreign culture is all about.