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>Ultimately everyone benefits. >It’s not about economics. What about the local citizen who is clearly neither the migrant nor the capitalist, both of whom cond

by 9x39 1y ago

>Ultimately everyone benefits. >It’s not about economics. What about the local citizen who is clearly neither the migrant nor the capitalist, both of whom conduct wage arbitrage the local doesn't benefit from? How is that not economic and why is that assumed to be racist? Savannah is almost 50% Black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? Why isn't it rational for the local citizens to see a business skirting the law to get American consumer dollars but avoid American wages and calculate that's not just not to their benefit, its to their detriment?

overfeed 1y ago
> but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? I don't imagine a lot of Americans in Savannah have experience standing up a battery factory, which is also a temporary job by definition.
- 9x39 1y ago
  Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. I think the simplest explanation is the likely one: that costs money, we can avoid paying if we use an underclass that doesn’t follow the rules or share the costs of locals we can undercut.
  - overfeed 1y ago
    > Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? SK has been building battery factories for a while, naturally, they ended up with an experienced talent pool. > How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? China has the blueprint: enforce knowledge sharing/knowledge transfer to local entities, and provide adequate direction and government funding. > I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. Experience =/= capability - Americans certainly can be trained, but who's paying (and waiting) for that? Does it make economic sense to do so for a one-and-done project? LG Chem (and its vendor ecosystem) have been building battery factories for well over a decade now, and will continue to use that competency. What would happen to your hypothetical newly-trained, all-American battery-factory builders once the Savannah project is up and running? Especially under this administration that is set on cutting the knees from under renewables.
Yeul 1y ago
The US is the wealthiest empire the world has ever seen. If that money isn't trickling down to rural America don't blame Johnny Foreigner blame your very white and very old leaders in Washington.
- 9x39 1y ago
  Okay but they’re so far away and indirectly related they might as well be on a different planet from the POV of locals. I don’t think race affects the vote for permitting or funding this program that equates to anything more than “my donors treat me very well if I vote for thing so line goes up”. In other words, enabling a underclass is entirely compatible with diverse .gov representatives.
tpm 1y ago
Without knowing the specifics, I would assume two things. Once the factory is working, it will employ local people - either people who already lived there or people who came to the town to work in the factory. It will also support an ecosystem of suppliers, some of whom will build their factories nearby. The second thing is that usually businesses pay some sort of local tax that supports the town infrastructure, is that not the case there?
- 9x39 1y ago
  It sure could be, it could also turn into an Amazon-Tijuana situation at the negative extreme (https://youtu.be/HFlsW9yulH0?si=n-FKLqVOEWWmDOpa https://youtu.be/HFlsW9yulH0?si=n-FKLqVOEWWmDOpa) In the pov of locals excluded (or let’s say not hired) from the factory, they have less chance of access to a wage and skill development than those on the inside. It’s possible we didn’t get it built so they just didn’t reach the step where they do a hiring event. It’s also possible they were never going to hire locals, and parts and labor were shipped in with no intent to use the area for anything but a footprint and utilities. We see what we want to see in these things, and you’re right, it could have had some positives eventually.
  - tpm 1y ago
    > It’s also possible they were never going to hire locals I find that very unlikely. In Slovakia we have a lot of Korean factories (Kia, Samsung etc) and while the management is Korean, they always hire local workers if available, otherwise agencies hire who's available - in our case workers from Serbia, Ukraine and Central Asia (that's not an unique situation, there is a general shortage of relatively-low-wage workers in the EU so people from outside are brought in to work here full time).

by 9x39 1y ago

overfeed 1y ago

> but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? I don't imagine a lot of Americans in Savannah have experience standing up a battery factory, which is also a temporary job by definition.

9x39 1y ago
Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. I think the simplest explanation is the likely one: that costs money, we can avoid paying if we use an underclass that doesn’t follow the rules or share the costs of locals we can undercut.
- overfeed 1y ago
  > Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? SK has been building battery factories for a while, naturally, they ended up with an experienced talent pool. > How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? China has the blueprint: enforce knowledge sharing/knowledge transfer to local entities, and provide adequate direction and government funding. > I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. Experience =/= capability - Americans certainly can be trained, but who's paying (and waiting) for that? Does it make economic sense to do so for a one-and-done project? LG Chem (and its vendor ecosystem) have been building battery factories for well over a decade now, and will continue to use that competency. What would happen to your hypothetical newly-trained, all-American battery-factory builders once the Savannah project is up and running? Especially under this administration that is set on cutting the knees from under renewables.

Yeul 1y ago

The US is the wealthiest empire the world has ever seen. If that money isn't trickling down to rural America don't blame Johnny Foreigner blame your very white and very old leaders in Washington.

9x39 1y ago
Okay but they’re so far away and indirectly related they might as well be on a different planet from the POV of locals. I don’t think race affects the vote for permitting or funding this program that equates to anything more than “my donors treat me very well if I vote for thing so line goes up”. In other words, enabling a underclass is entirely compatible with diverse .gov representatives.

tpm 1y ago

Without knowing the specifics, I would assume two things. Once the factory is working, it will employ local people - either people who already lived there or people who came to the town to work in the factory. It will also support an ecosystem of suppliers, some of whom will build their factories nearby. The second thing is that usually businesses pay some sort of local tax that supports the town infrastructure, is that not the case there?

9x39 1y ago
It sure could be, it could also turn into an Amazon-Tijuana situation at the negative extreme (https://youtu.be/HFlsW9yulH0?si=n-FKLqVOEWWmDOpa https://youtu.be/HFlsW9yulH0?si=n-FKLqVOEWWmDOpa) In the pov of locals excluded (or let’s say not hired) from the factory, they have less chance of access to a wage and skill development than those on the inside. It’s possible we didn’t get it built so they just didn’t reach the step where they do a hiring event. It’s also possible they were never going to hire locals, and parts and labor were shipped in with no intent to use the area for anything but a footprint and utilities. We see what we want to see in these things, and you’re right, it could have had some positives eventually.
- tpm 1y ago
  > It’s also possible they were never going to hire locals I find that very unlikely. In Slovakia we have a lot of Korean factories (Kia, Samsung etc) and while the management is Korean, they always hire local workers if available, otherwise agencies hire who's available - in our case workers from Serbia, Ukraine and Central Asia (that's not an unique situation, there is a general shortage of relatively-low-wage workers in the EU so people from outside are brought in to work here full time).