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> KDE Linux is an immutable distribution that uses Arch Linux packages as its base, but Graham notes that it is ""definitely not an 'Arch-based distro!'"" Pacma

> KDE Linux is an immutable distribution that uses Arch Linux packages as its base, but Graham notes that it is ""definitely not an 'Arch-based distro!'"" Pacman is not included, and Arch is used only for the base operating system. So it's basically a SteamOS sibling, just without Steam?

zahlman 1y ago
If a distribution is immutable (and thus omits the package manager) and pre-configured for a specific purpose (here, ensuring that KDE works), how much does the base really matter?
jasonfrost 1y ago
But without the steam side
- throwaway314155 1y ago
  SteamDeck also ships with pacman.
ryao 1y ago
It sounds like how ChromeOS is Gentoo based but does not ship the package manager.
- seiferteric 1y ago
  Your telling me google uses Gentoo for ChromeOS but doesn't even host a Gentoo mirror? jeez...
  - apfsx 1y ago
    If that's true I think its genuinely disrespectful. Truly.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Won't someone please think of the multi trillion dollar company?
- Blikkentrekker 1y ago
  It does I believe? I've never tried it myself but I've heard multiple voices say that once you go into the terminal the entire Gentoo stack is just there with portage, equery, qapps and such. In fact, from what I understand it is in fact not really Gentoo based but Portage-based, as in they for the most part write their own ebuilds and software and from what I know have their own custom init system and display system that's not in Gentoo but they found that Portage was simply very convenient for automating their entire process. The claim that “gentoo is just Portage” is not entirely true, there's still a supported base system that's configured as offered by Gentoo but it's far more flexible than that of most systems of course, granting the user choice over all sorts of fundamental system components.
keyle 1y ago
Sounds like a good distro to use with your parents and grand parents, if they're not solely using iPads... That might be their target audience. What appeals to me about linux is the hackability and configurability. This takes it all away in some way, but that's not to say that they won't find a market for it.
- sho_hn 1y ago
  It doesn't necessarily take much hackability away. You might find it makes it easier. You can overlay changes to the read-only rootfs using the sysext mechanism. You can load and unload these extensions. This makes experiments or juggling debug stuff a lot easier than mucking about in /usr used to be. A lot of KDE Linux is about making updates and even hackability safe in terms of making things trivial to roll back or remove. A goal is to always be able to unwedge without requiring a reinstall. If you know you can overlay whatever over your /usr and always easily return to a known-good state, hackability arguably increases by lowering the risk.
  - RossBencina 1y ago
    This overlay feature sounds attractive. It bothers me that there is no easy traceability or undoability when I perform random system-level Ubuntu configuration file edits to make things work on my system. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Sure I could do the professional sysadmin thing and keep a log book of every configuration change, or maybe switch to NixOS and script all my configuration changes, but something with lower effort would be welcome. Ideally you want the equivalent of "git commit -m<explanation>", "git diff" and "git log" for every change you make to system configuration.
    - stakhanov 1y ago
      CachyOS and openSUSE have you covered with btrfs and snapper pre-configured to take snapshots before/after doing potentially damaging things (and, of course, you can make them manually, whenever the thought occurs to you that you're entering the "danger zone"). You can boot into a snapshot directly from the boatloader, then rollback if you need to. Immutable distros just one-up that by trying to steer the system in a direction where it can work with a readonly rootfs in normal operation, and nudging you to take a snapshot before/after taking the rootfs from readonly to read-write. (openSUSE has you covered there as well, if that's your thing; it's called MicroOS). Both of those distros use KDE by default, so the value-add of KDE having its own distribution is basically so they can have a "reference implementation" that will always have all the latest and greatest that KDE has to offer, and showcase to the rest of the Linux world, how they envision the integration should be done. If I were to set up a library computer or a computer for my aging parents, I would choose openSUSE Leap Micro with KDE, as that would put the emphasis on stability instead.
shmerl 1y ago
Bazzite is more general purpose example like that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
tannhaeuser 1y ago
Hopefully they also integrate SteamOS/Proton and easy Wine configs and they might have a winner.
lproven 1y ago
> So it's basically a SteamOS sibling, just without Steam? Excellent summary. Yes.

zahlman 1y ago

If a distribution is immutable (and thus omits the package manager) and pre-configured for a specific purpose (here, ensuring that KDE works), how much does the base really matter?

jasonfrost 1y ago

But without the steam side

throwaway314155 1y ago
SteamDeck also ships with pacman.

ryao 1y ago

It sounds like how ChromeOS is Gentoo based but does not ship the package manager.

seiferteric 1y ago
Your telling me google uses Gentoo for ChromeOS but doesn't even host a Gentoo mirror? jeez...
- apfsx 1y ago
  If that's true I think its genuinely disrespectful. Truly.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Won't someone please think of the multi trillion dollar company?
Blikkentrekker 1y ago
It does I believe? I've never tried it myself but I've heard multiple voices say that once you go into the terminal the entire Gentoo stack is just there with portage, equery, qapps and such. In fact, from what I understand it is in fact not really Gentoo based but Portage-based, as in they for the most part write their own ebuilds and software and from what I know have their own custom init system and display system that's not in Gentoo but they found that Portage was simply very convenient for automating their entire process. The claim that “gentoo is just Portage” is not entirely true, there's still a supported base system that's configured as offered by Gentoo but it's far more flexible than that of most systems of course, granting the user choice over all sorts of fundamental system components.

keyle 1y ago

Sounds like a good distro to use with your parents and grand parents, if they're not solely using iPads... That might be their target audience. What appeals to me about linux is the hackability and configurability. This takes it all away in some way, but that's not to say that they won't find a market for it.

sho_hn 1y ago
It doesn't necessarily take much hackability away. You might find it makes it easier. You can overlay changes to the read-only rootfs using the sysext mechanism. You can load and unload these extensions. This makes experiments or juggling debug stuff a lot easier than mucking about in /usr used to be. A lot of KDE Linux is about making updates and even hackability safe in terms of making things trivial to roll back or remove. A goal is to always be able to unwedge without requiring a reinstall. If you know you can overlay whatever over your /usr and always easily return to a known-good state, hackability arguably increases by lowering the risk.
- RossBencina 1y ago
  This overlay feature sounds attractive. It bothers me that there is no easy traceability or undoability when I perform random system-level Ubuntu configuration file edits to make things work on my system. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Sure I could do the professional sysadmin thing and keep a log book of every configuration change, or maybe switch to NixOS and script all my configuration changes, but something with lower effort would be welcome. Ideally you want the equivalent of "git commit -m<explanation>", "git diff" and "git log" for every change you make to system configuration.
  - stakhanov 1y ago
    CachyOS and openSUSE have you covered with btrfs and snapper pre-configured to take snapshots before/after doing potentially damaging things (and, of course, you can make them manually, whenever the thought occurs to you that you're entering the "danger zone"). You can boot into a snapshot directly from the boatloader, then rollback if you need to. Immutable distros just one-up that by trying to steer the system in a direction where it can work with a readonly rootfs in normal operation, and nudging you to take a snapshot before/after taking the rootfs from readonly to read-write. (openSUSE has you covered there as well, if that's your thing; it's called MicroOS). Both of those distros use KDE by default, so the value-add of KDE having its own distribution is basically so they can have a "reference implementation" that will always have all the latest and greatest that KDE has to offer, and showcase to the rest of the Linux world, how they envision the integration should be done. If I were to set up a library computer or a computer for my aging parents, I would choose openSUSE Leap Micro with KDE, as that would put the emphasis on stability instead.

shmerl 1y ago

Bazzite is more general purpose example like that.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

tannhaeuser 1y ago

Hopefully they also integrate SteamOS/Proton and easy Wine configs and they might have a winner.

lproven 1y ago

> So it's basically a SteamOS sibling, just without Steam? Excellent summary. Yes.