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Not only is Arch also a rolling distro (despite them saying "not Arch!"), Arch is one of the most horrible rolling distros in terms of stability. Their general

by jorvi 1y ago

Not only is Arch also a rolling distro (despite them saying "not Arch!"), Arch is one of the most horrible rolling distros in terms of stability. Their general principle for package breakage is "you should have checked it on our (site) release log". They don't throw an error or a warning, if something is a breaking change and you pull it into your system, you basically get a "hehe should have checked the release log", and you're hosed. If you want a good, actually professional rolling release, use SUSE Tumbleweed. They test packages more thoroughly, and they actually hold back breaking or buggy changes instead of the "lol read log and get fucked" policy.

mariusor 1y ago
Very uncharitable perspective on people that do the work for free. I can understand not wanting to use a distribution where breakages can happen, but being a dick about it less so.
temp0826 1y ago
I swore off arch when an update surprised me by switching to systemd (years ago obviously) and trashing my system in the process
Lex-2008 1y ago
To be fair to Arch, you can always subscribe to their RSS or mailing list if you want to be notified about breaking changes
thangalin 1y ago
> Arch is one of the most horrible rolling distros We've had different experiences. I've been using Arch for about 8 years and have had to scour the forums no more than thrice to find the magic incantations to fix a broken package manager. In all cases, the system was saved without a reinstall. However, it is certainly painful when pacman breaks. $ cat /etc/issue Antergos Linux \r (\l) ;-)
- mynegation 1y ago
  That’s three times too many. I have been running an Ubuntu server at home for 10 years and went through probably 4 LTS releases and the number of times apt flaked out on me - exactly zero.
  - TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
    I'm running Ubuntu 24.10 and they broke the upgrade to 25.04 if you're using ZFS on the boot drive. Their solution was to prevent the upgrade from running, and basically leave behind anyone stuck on 24.10 to figure it out for themselves.
    - skeledrew 1y ago
      TBF, they can't be expected to support every potential configuration users may think of.
      - TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
        If they weren't going to support the feature why did they provide it as an option on the installer without any warnings or disclaimers? This isn't some bespoke feature that I hacked together, it's part of the official installer. If I had known it wasn't fully supported then I wouldn't have used it.
  - OJFord 1y ago
    So not rolling? I too have never had to open Windows Task Manager on macOS.
- glitchc 1y ago
  YMMV. Manjaro's broken on me multiple times. I leave a machine alone for two years and it's next upgrade is almost guaranteed to break something.
  - LambdaComplex 1y ago
sevensor 1y ago
Anecdote: 12 years with Arch, including a laptop with 9 years on one install. Zero issues. But yeah, there’s a low volume mailing list. Get on it. Read it, it’s very short and to the point, and it’s only a few times per year.
- secret-noun 1y ago
  Are you talking about Arch-announce? (https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-announce@lists.archlinux.org/ https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-announce@list...) I am new to Arch and would like the notifications that you are talking about.
  - prirai 1y ago
    Yes, and also https://archlinux.org/feeds/news/ https://archlinux.org/feeds/news/
TiredOfLife 1y ago
> SUSE Tumbleweed > They test packages more thoroughly, and they actually hold back breaking or buggy changes instead of the "lol read log and get fucked" policy. I am currently on Arch specifically because Tumbleweed shipped a broken Firefox build and refused to ship the fixed version for a month. As a workaround I uninstalled the bundled firefox and replaced it with flatpak. And on next system update the bundled Firefox was back because for some strange reason packages on suse are bundled.
globular-toast 1y ago
Gentoo is very stable in my experience and you get to choose exactly which packages you want to be unstable vs stable (the default).
Perz1val 1y ago
You know you don't have to update it daily?
unsungNovelty 1y ago
This is a misunderstanding from users POV. Something that a lot of people have. Arch is a DO IT YOURSELF distro. They write that thing everywhere they can. The stability of the installation is literally ON YOU! Your responsibility as a DO IT YOURSELF distro user. They didn't trick you into it or something. Expecting Arch linux to spoon feed is like expecting IKEA to give you assembled furniture. You should use openSUSE or other "managed" rolling release distros. Arch IS NOT A "managed" rolling release distro. https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-recommendation-framework-and-my-picks-for-2024/#why-arch-linux https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-r...
- mouse_ 1y ago
  Then they probably shouldn't ship it with a package manager.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    That doesn't follow; DIY is a spectrum. It can be perfectly reasonable for a DIY distro to ship a package manager, just as it can be reasonable for it to run on existing hardware instead of expecting you to break out the soldering iron.
  - unsungNovelty 1y ago
    My installation is now 6 years old. Never had any point release distros that long. Stability is subjective to hardware for starters. And secondly, Arch is a DIY. Do not use it if you can't get it to work for your use cases. We have 300+ distros to choose from. I am just politely telling you that your expectation of you wanting Arch to take care of your installation was never a promise from the project. It's software. It will work the way it is written. As simple as that.

by jorvi 1y ago

mariusor 1y ago

Very uncharitable perspective on people that do the work for free. I can understand not wanting to use a distribution where breakages can happen, but being a dick about it less so.

temp0826 1y ago

I swore off arch when an update surprised me by switching to systemd (years ago obviously) and trashing my system in the process

Lex-2008 1y ago

To be fair to Arch, you can always subscribe to their RSS or mailing list if you want to be notified about breaking changes

thangalin 1y ago

> Arch is one of the most horrible rolling distros We've had different experiences. I've been using Arch for about 8 years and have had to scour the forums no more than thrice to find the magic incantations to fix a broken package manager. In all cases, the system was saved without a reinstall. However, it is certainly painful when pacman breaks. $ cat /etc/issue Antergos Linux \r (\l) ;-)

mynegation 1y ago
That’s three times too many. I have been running an Ubuntu server at home for 10 years and went through probably 4 LTS releases and the number of times apt flaked out on me - exactly zero.
- TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
  I'm running Ubuntu 24.10 and they broke the upgrade to 25.04 if you're using ZFS on the boot drive. Their solution was to prevent the upgrade from running, and basically leave behind anyone stuck on 24.10 to figure it out for themselves.
  - skeledrew 1y ago
    TBF, they can't be expected to support every potential configuration users may think of.
    - TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
      If they weren't going to support the feature why did they provide it as an option on the installer without any warnings or disclaimers? This isn't some bespoke feature that I hacked together, it's part of the official installer. If I had known it wasn't fully supported then I wouldn't have used it.
- OJFord 1y ago
  So not rolling? I too have never had to open Windows Task Manager on macOS.
glitchc 1y ago
YMMV. Manjaro's broken on me multiple times. I leave a machine alone for two years and it's next upgrade is almost guaranteed to break something.
- LambdaComplex 1y ago

sevensor 1y ago

Anecdote: 12 years with Arch, including a laptop with 9 years on one install. Zero issues. But yeah, there’s a low volume mailing list. Get on it. Read it, it’s very short and to the point, and it’s only a few times per year.

secret-noun 1y ago
Are you talking about Arch-announce? (https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-announce@lists.archlinux.org/ https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-announce@list...) I am new to Arch and would like the notifications that you are talking about.
- prirai 1y ago
  Yes, and also https://archlinux.org/feeds/news/ https://archlinux.org/feeds/news/

TiredOfLife 1y ago

> SUSE Tumbleweed > They test packages more thoroughly, and they actually hold back breaking or buggy changes instead of the "lol read log and get fucked" policy. I am currently on Arch specifically because Tumbleweed shipped a broken Firefox build and refused to ship the fixed version for a month. As a workaround I uninstalled the bundled firefox and replaced it with flatpak. And on next system update the bundled Firefox was back because for some strange reason packages on suse are bundled.

globular-toast 1y ago

Gentoo is very stable in my experience and you get to choose exactly which packages you want to be unstable vs stable (the default).

Perz1val 1y ago

You know you don't have to update it daily?

unsungNovelty 1y ago

This is a misunderstanding from users POV. Something that a lot of people have. Arch is a DO IT YOURSELF distro. They write that thing everywhere they can. The stability of the installation is literally ON YOU! Your responsibility as a DO IT YOURSELF distro user. They didn't trick you into it or something. Expecting Arch linux to spoon feed is like expecting IKEA to give you assembled furniture. You should use openSUSE or other "managed" rolling release distros. Arch IS NOT A "managed" rolling release distro. https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-recommendation-framework-and-my-picks-for-2024/#why-arch-linux https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-r...

mouse_ 1y ago
Then they probably shouldn't ship it with a package manager.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  That doesn't follow; DIY is a spectrum. It can be perfectly reasonable for a DIY distro to ship a package manager, just as it can be reasonable for it to run on existing hardware instead of expecting you to break out the soldering iron.
- unsungNovelty 1y ago
  My installation is now 6 years old. Never had any point release distros that long. Stability is subjective to hardware for starters. And secondly, Arch is a DIY. Do not use it if you can't get it to work for your use cases. We have 300+ distros to choose from. I am just politely telling you that your expectation of you wanting Arch to take care of your installation was never a promise from the project. It's software. It will work the way it is written. As simple as that.