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In contrast, tariffs and the government taking stakes in private companies reminds me of fascist Italy under Mussolini: https://www.historyfromonestudenttoanoth

In contrast, tariffs and the government taking stakes in private companies reminds me of fascist Italy under Mussolini: https://www.historyfromonestudenttoanother.com/a-level/a-level-european-history-1919-41/mussolinis-italy-1919-41/the-fascist-corporate-state https://www.historyfromonestudenttoanother.com/a-level/a-lev... > Charter of Labour, 1927 > He recognised private enterprises as the most efficient, gaining him support from rich industrialists. > The charter also stated that the state could take control of, manage or encourage enterprises that were considered inefficient.

colechristensen 1y ago
[flagged]
- poncho_romero 1y ago
  Next you’ll tell me North Korea is a democratic republic!
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    Socialism isn't just good or bad by default, how it is implemented is what defines its quality and morality. Socialism isn't "what I like" and "things I don't like aren't socialism", it's a much more generic term.
- Yeul 1y ago
  The world is going to shit and instead of dying with dignity people seek strong leadership and celestial intervention. It is a tale as old as time.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    When the public institutions fail people seek authoritarianism to actually get things done. While doing so in an awful manner, the current administration is definitely getting things done. I primarily blame Democrats for the current situation for they have been doing just an awful job of getting anything done or standing up to opposition, they are ineffective cowards and invited the current situation with their incompetence.
    - fredophile 1y ago
      > I primarily blame Democrats for the current situation for they have been doing just an awful job of getting anything done or standing up to opposition, they are ineffective cowards and invited the current situation with their incompetence. I agree with you that Democrats have been ineffective in opposing Republican policies but I think you've come to the wrong conclusion. When someone gets robbed I don't primarily blame them for being ineffective at securing their home, I blame the person who robbed them. Why wouldn't you primarily blame Republicans for pushing bad policies instead of Democrats for being bad at blocking them?
      - colechristensen 1y ago
        Because we are talking about a nation and a political party covering half the population and not an individual victim of a crime the "don't blame the victim" morality does not apply. When government is doing a terrible job it loses the consent of the people and gets overthrown, usually by monsters. This is the problem with Democrats, they think they should continue to win, that they deserve to continue to win regardless of how they perform. Because they're right it is morally correct for them to continue winning. THAT'S NOT HOW THE WORLD WORKS. It is historically objectively true that governments failing to address the concerns of their people are replaced, usually by authoritarian autocrats. It's a pretty straightforward mechanism. Democratic leaders in the party corrupted the process to put Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden on the presidential ticket. Democratic leaders in Congress failed to show any leadership, failed to address any problems, failed to stand up or take any sort of action that addressed meaningful problems in this country. They created the environment for the right to fall off a cliff into extremism. Instead of defending democracy they sat back and watched. You've got hundreds of millions of people in this country, extremists are always going to exist. You can't pretend that they don't exist or hope and moralize and blame them for existing when their ideas get popular. The ideas of the extreme right got popular because the ideas of the center and the left failed to convince enough people. When my castle falls I'm not blaming the invading army, there's always going to be a new one testing my defenses. I'm blaming the castle guards. This isn't the case of a poor defenseless victim of a senseless crime. This is the experts who should know better falling asleep at the wheel and intentionally ignoring reality because of their selfishness and stupidity.
- KPGv2 1y ago
  I might just not be reading correctly, but on the off chance I parsed your comment correctly, I respond to: > The Z in Nazi is for "sozialistische" === socialist by pointing out the Nazis were not, in fact socialist. They executed socialists and communists, but called themselves socialist in the same way the DPRK and PROC call themselves republics.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    The Nazis and the Communists were different flavors of collective society based governments that put the whole ahead of the individual with a tight control over the thoughts and behaviors of people. Government, business, and industry blended together and you couldn't be in business without sharing the ideology and sharing power with the government. "not socialism" is nonsense by people who really like socialism, nazism was just a different flavor of socialism and saying otherwise has been part of the propaganda in favor of socialists for a century. You can be nice and have a socialist society, but it's also a lot easier to have a dictator rise to power in a socialist society because it's easier to hijack the collectivist mindset into a collective with extreme loyalty to an autocrat. You just have to make them angry and afraid.
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      Reflection: I have never seen upfront a more collectivist mindset than MAGA.
    - LinXitoW 1y ago
      You've now watered down your frankly crazy statement of "Nazis were socialist, actually" to "Nazis and socialists a group of people that make policies to improve the wellbeing of that group". This fits every single other form of governance, outside of anarchy or extreme versions of libertarianism. There's absolutely no good reason to ever make the statements you've made, outside of trying to make Nazis look better.
      - colechristensen 1y ago
        I swear to god everybody is just stupid and thinks socialism means "stuff I like" Nothing you said there is true.
- slater 1y ago
  > The Z in Nazi is for "sozialistische" === socialist No, it's not. Emphatically, demonstrably not. Ignoring your other stuff about attempting to make the tired "Nazis were socialists, it's in their name, see?" argument, which is just Wolfgang-Pauli-levels of "not even wrong", the "z" in Nazi comes from the German pronunciation of "National".
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    Yeah, it didn't begin as a shortening, but an insult pun, which is why Hitler banned the term after gaining power. https://chroniclesmagazine.org/society-culture/the-strange-origin-of-the-word-nazi/ https://chroniclesmagazine.org/society-culture/the-strange-o...
- Terr_ 1y ago
  Even if that were true (it isn't) that's like saying the D in DPRK stands for "Democratic", but using a word doesn't make it true. North Korea is not democratic. Hell, even back in 1931, people knew the Nazi party was using false branding. You can see it with this anti-Hitler editorial cartoon [0], where Hitler is changing the emphasis of the party-name to schmooze up to different audiences. Or remember that Night of the Long Knives [1] in 1934, where the Nazis murdered the "socialists." [0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das_Firmenschild_1931.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

colechristensen 1y ago

[flagged]

poncho_romero 1y ago
Next you’ll tell me North Korea is a democratic republic!
- colechristensen 1y ago
  Socialism isn't just good or bad by default, how it is implemented is what defines its quality and morality. Socialism isn't "what I like" and "things I don't like aren't socialism", it's a much more generic term.
Yeul 1y ago
The world is going to shit and instead of dying with dignity people seek strong leadership and celestial intervention. It is a tale as old as time.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  When the public institutions fail people seek authoritarianism to actually get things done. While doing so in an awful manner, the current administration is definitely getting things done. I primarily blame Democrats for the current situation for they have been doing just an awful job of getting anything done or standing up to opposition, they are ineffective cowards and invited the current situation with their incompetence.
  - fredophile 1y ago
    > I primarily blame Democrats for the current situation for they have been doing just an awful job of getting anything done or standing up to opposition, they are ineffective cowards and invited the current situation with their incompetence. I agree with you that Democrats have been ineffective in opposing Republican policies but I think you've come to the wrong conclusion. When someone gets robbed I don't primarily blame them for being ineffective at securing their home, I blame the person who robbed them. Why wouldn't you primarily blame Republicans for pushing bad policies instead of Democrats for being bad at blocking them?
    - colechristensen 1y ago
      Because we are talking about a nation and a political party covering half the population and not an individual victim of a crime the "don't blame the victim" morality does not apply. When government is doing a terrible job it loses the consent of the people and gets overthrown, usually by monsters. This is the problem with Democrats, they think they should continue to win, that they deserve to continue to win regardless of how they perform. Because they're right it is morally correct for them to continue winning. THAT'S NOT HOW THE WORLD WORKS. It is historically objectively true that governments failing to address the concerns of their people are replaced, usually by authoritarian autocrats. It's a pretty straightforward mechanism. Democratic leaders in the party corrupted the process to put Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden on the presidential ticket. Democratic leaders in Congress failed to show any leadership, failed to address any problems, failed to stand up or take any sort of action that addressed meaningful problems in this country. They created the environment for the right to fall off a cliff into extremism. Instead of defending democracy they sat back and watched. You've got hundreds of millions of people in this country, extremists are always going to exist. You can't pretend that they don't exist or hope and moralize and blame them for existing when their ideas get popular. The ideas of the extreme right got popular because the ideas of the center and the left failed to convince enough people. When my castle falls I'm not blaming the invading army, there's always going to be a new one testing my defenses. I'm blaming the castle guards. This isn't the case of a poor defenseless victim of a senseless crime. This is the experts who should know better falling asleep at the wheel and intentionally ignoring reality because of their selfishness and stupidity.
KPGv2 1y ago
I might just not be reading correctly, but on the off chance I parsed your comment correctly, I respond to: > The Z in Nazi is for "sozialistische" === socialist by pointing out the Nazis were not, in fact socialist. They executed socialists and communists, but called themselves socialist in the same way the DPRK and PROC call themselves republics.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  The Nazis and the Communists were different flavors of collective society based governments that put the whole ahead of the individual with a tight control over the thoughts and behaviors of people. Government, business, and industry blended together and you couldn't be in business without sharing the ideology and sharing power with the government. "not socialism" is nonsense by people who really like socialism, nazism was just a different flavor of socialism and saying otherwise has been part of the propaganda in favor of socialists for a century. You can be nice and have a socialist society, but it's also a lot easier to have a dictator rise to power in a socialist society because it's easier to hijack the collectivist mindset into a collective with extreme loyalty to an autocrat. You just have to make them angry and afraid.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Reflection: I have never seen upfront a more collectivist mindset than MAGA.
  - LinXitoW 1y ago
    You've now watered down your frankly crazy statement of "Nazis were socialist, actually" to "Nazis and socialists a group of people that make policies to improve the wellbeing of that group". This fits every single other form of governance, outside of anarchy or extreme versions of libertarianism. There's absolutely no good reason to ever make the statements you've made, outside of trying to make Nazis look better.
    - colechristensen 1y ago
      I swear to god everybody is just stupid and thinks socialism means "stuff I like" Nothing you said there is true.
slater 1y ago
> The Z in Nazi is for "sozialistische" === socialist No, it's not. Emphatically, demonstrably not. Ignoring your other stuff about attempting to make the tired "Nazis were socialists, it's in their name, see?" argument, which is just Wolfgang-Pauli-levels of "not even wrong", the "z" in Nazi comes from the German pronunciation of "National".
- Terr_ 1y ago
  Yeah, it didn't begin as a shortening, but an insult pun, which is why Hitler banned the term after gaining power. https://chroniclesmagazine.org/society-culture/the-strange-origin-of-the-word-nazi/ https://chroniclesmagazine.org/society-culture/the-strange-o...
Terr_ 1y ago
Even if that were true (it isn't) that's like saying the D in DPRK stands for "Democratic", but using a word doesn't make it true. North Korea is not democratic. Hell, even back in 1931, people knew the Nazi party was using false branding. You can see it with this anti-Hitler editorial cartoon [0], where Hitler is changing the emphasis of the party-name to schmooze up to different audiences. Or remember that Night of the Long Knives [1] in 1934, where the Nazis murdered the "socialists." [0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das_Firmenschild_1931.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacobus_Belsen_-_Das... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives