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I don't like the idea of even more expectations for tips, since we're already tip-fatigued. Despite that, I'd rather have less rules and taxes and have them act

I don't like the idea of even more expectations for tips, since we're already tip-fatigued. Despite that, I'd rather have less rules and taxes and have them actually enforced than have a situation where people pocket the cash portion of their tips untaxed anyway, which only punishes honest people.

RankingMember 1y ago
It's pernicious. I've been to places that add "service charge" by default now to relieve tipping, then still give you the option to tip on top of that, which some people do because they think maybe the service charge isn't going to the server (in the places I've been to, it is). Tipping needs to die and it's frustrating to see it starting to proliferate in some European countries.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  Just hit the zero tip option and move on with life. If a seller can’t advertise the price sufficient to sustain their business, that is their problem.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    With a small amount of sadness, this is the conclusion I'm starting to end up with. Yes I think waitresses and service workers should make more money. But tipping in the US has become opaque, expanding everywhere, and the expectations around tipping seem to be getting ratcheted up constantly. A business is not viable if customers have to pay your employees separately. I'm close to hitting the nuclear button and just defaulting to zero.
  - KPGv2 1y ago
    My bright line rule is that I won't tip before service is rendered. If I'm asked before, I can't judge the service, and therefore making a tip decision is impossible.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- csa 1y ago
  > I've been to places that add "service charge" by default now to relieve tipping, then still give you the option to tip on top of that, which some people do because they think maybe the service charge isn't going to the server This may be the case some of the time, but from what I’ve seen and heard… During COVID, everyone put out the tip jar. It turns out that some folks are willing to give in spots that are not “traditional” tipping situations. Some folks just have extra money, and they are happy to share their wealth with others. This is doubly true in hard times. Tips are one way to do that, and some folks do that with extra generosity. I will also add that people seem to be more than happy to tip/give extremely generously to folks who “make their day”. Maybe it’s a great ride share driver, or a great massage therapist, or an online streamer, or whatever. Some people seem to be more than willing to tip folks who bring them joy. All that said, if that’s not your style, just click skip and move on. Most people understand and won’t judge. There are a handful of entitled people who will try to guilt people into typing in non-traditional tipping spots. Just don’t go back to those places if at all possible — those people suck.
  - zamadatix 1y ago
    The problem stems less from how it might have originated and more from what it results in. Multiple times I've been travelling for dinner with coworkers and someone notes "oh, tip is already included here" (be it the group size, the way the place works normally, or whatever reason) and then half the table starts redoing the receipt because they were tricked into it. This example highlights it's not always about intent, work already has a set policy of how to tip (i.e. no generosity or etc involved), people are just getting plain tricked into doing something else instead. Regardless - it's successful in the growth of tips, so it spreads. Similarly, "just click skip and move on" puts the friction in the wrong direction - especially if you're not alone. It's great that it can apply a lot of the time, but the problem is it has friction, sometimes strong, in certain scenarios - again, this friction is only weighted towards the growth of tips. Lastly, the vast majority of people have some level of desire to be fair, even if they don't want to be generous. Any uncertainty which can be created in the tipping process ("am I supposed to tip here?", "is the tip in the service charge, if so how much goes to the person/how much were they expecting to get in total?", "is the recommended tip on the receipt more than I expected", and so on) tends to push people to tip more than their generosity alone would have inclined, and it's really quite unfair to say the solution is to just click skip and hope all will understand each time. Unfortunately, there is pretty much nothing pushing in the opposite direction. Your options as an individual, or even sizable portion of society, are to shit on the wait staff's income about it in hopes they complain enough that management gives them a better salary (that'd take quite the movement). Everything about this side has the exact opposite incentive pressures as the above, and so whether particularly generous folks are a factor or not... there's really nothing that's going to get done about it for the typical person. Maybe we can start some place in the middle of "being able to walk into a place and understand what the cost will be up front", such as including tax in the base prices of things, and it'll open more doors about tipping for the same consideration. Until then, we all are stuck with dealing with it.
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
  In Japan, the service is amazing, and you don't tip. If you leave money on the table, the server will chase you down, to give it back. In the US, you get shit service, and they give you the stinkeye, if you don't tip at least 20%.
  - whatevermom 1y ago
    Happened to me once in Thailand, I was very surprised. Truly USA is an overpriced country with the only good thing being that jobs are high paying… and that’s it. I think the best thing in life is to have a remote job somehow + travel 50% of the time + stay w friends and family 50% of the time
    - KPGv2 1y ago
      > USA is an overpriced country The USA is ranked sixth in purchasing power in the world, meaning we are definitionally underpriced. The countries that have even more purchasing power are: Norway, Macau, Bermuda, Singapore, and Luxembourg. https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
      - MandieD 1y ago
        Let's see... two tiny countries that specialize in finance, a city-state that is the historic trade hub for the region, another that is the historic gambling hub for the region, and a low-population country that won the oil lottery and has been smart enough not to let its residents get high on their own supply, thus avoiding the worst of "the resource curse."
      - epolanski 1y ago
        Idk, as an European, coming to US 20/10 years ago was cheaper than traveling Europe. Today? You're easily paying 3/400$ per night in Manhattan and other cities. Same is true for dining, museums, transport. Everything is insanely expensive compared to what it was just few years ago. Services are even more expensive.
  - 1y ago
Rebelgecko 1y ago
I guess the good news is now we can ask the server their marginal tax rate and reduce our tips accordingly
colechristensen 1y ago
I do like the idea of people doing stuff for free for the public benefit and asking quietly for tips on topic with the article re: "digital creators".
- edoceo 1y ago
  Flattr - are they still around? Edit: closed in 2023 after 14 years.
viraptor 1y ago
> since we're already tip-fatigued Bluetti hit the "are you actually fucking serious?" level for me with the tips. They ask you for a % tip when you order online from them. No employee contact, no consultation. I just added a $2k item to the basket, tried to pay and got an invitation to tip extra.
thayne 1y ago
Yeah, this is going to incentivize businesses to try and make as much of their employees' pay come from tips, which means consumers will be expected to pay more tips, which is the opposite direction I want it to go.

RankingMember 1y ago

It's pernicious. I've been to places that add "service charge" by default now to relieve tipping, then still give you the option to tip on top of that, which some people do because they think maybe the service charge isn't going to the server (in the places I've been to, it is). Tipping needs to die and it's frustrating to see it starting to proliferate in some European countries.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
Just hit the zero tip option and move on with life. If a seller can’t advertise the price sufficient to sustain their business, that is their problem.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  With a small amount of sadness, this is the conclusion I'm starting to end up with. Yes I think waitresses and service workers should make more money. But tipping in the US has become opaque, expanding everywhere, and the expectations around tipping seem to be getting ratcheted up constantly. A business is not viable if customers have to pay your employees separately. I'm close to hitting the nuclear button and just defaulting to zero.
- KPGv2 1y ago
  My bright line rule is that I won't tip before service is rendered. If I'm asked before, I can't judge the service, and therefore making a tip decision is impossible.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
csa 1y ago
> I've been to places that add "service charge" by default now to relieve tipping, then still give you the option to tip on top of that, which some people do because they think maybe the service charge isn't going to the server This may be the case some of the time, but from what I’ve seen and heard… During COVID, everyone put out the tip jar. It turns out that some folks are willing to give in spots that are not “traditional” tipping situations. Some folks just have extra money, and they are happy to share their wealth with others. This is doubly true in hard times. Tips are one way to do that, and some folks do that with extra generosity. I will also add that people seem to be more than happy to tip/give extremely generously to folks who “make their day”. Maybe it’s a great ride share driver, or a great massage therapist, or an online streamer, or whatever. Some people seem to be more than willing to tip folks who bring them joy. All that said, if that’s not your style, just click skip and move on. Most people understand and won’t judge. There are a handful of entitled people who will try to guilt people into typing in non-traditional tipping spots. Just don’t go back to those places if at all possible — those people suck.
- zamadatix 1y ago
  The problem stems less from how it might have originated and more from what it results in. Multiple times I've been travelling for dinner with coworkers and someone notes "oh, tip is already included here" (be it the group size, the way the place works normally, or whatever reason) and then half the table starts redoing the receipt because they were tricked into it. This example highlights it's not always about intent, work already has a set policy of how to tip (i.e. no generosity or etc involved), people are just getting plain tricked into doing something else instead. Regardless - it's successful in the growth of tips, so it spreads. Similarly, "just click skip and move on" puts the friction in the wrong direction - especially if you're not alone. It's great that it can apply a lot of the time, but the problem is it has friction, sometimes strong, in certain scenarios - again, this friction is only weighted towards the growth of tips. Lastly, the vast majority of people have some level of desire to be fair, even if they don't want to be generous. Any uncertainty which can be created in the tipping process ("am I supposed to tip here?", "is the tip in the service charge, if so how much goes to the person/how much were they expecting to get in total?", "is the recommended tip on the receipt more than I expected", and so on) tends to push people to tip more than their generosity alone would have inclined, and it's really quite unfair to say the solution is to just click skip and hope all will understand each time. Unfortunately, there is pretty much nothing pushing in the opposite direction. Your options as an individual, or even sizable portion of society, are to shit on the wait staff's income about it in hopes they complain enough that management gives them a better salary (that'd take quite the movement). Everything about this side has the exact opposite incentive pressures as the above, and so whether particularly generous folks are a factor or not... there's really nothing that's going to get done about it for the typical person. Maybe we can start some place in the middle of "being able to walk into a place and understand what the cost will be up front", such as including tax in the base prices of things, and it'll open more doors about tipping for the same consideration. Until then, we all are stuck with dealing with it.
ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
In Japan, the service is amazing, and you don't tip. If you leave money on the table, the server will chase you down, to give it back. In the US, you get shit service, and they give you the stinkeye, if you don't tip at least 20%.
- whatevermom 1y ago
  Happened to me once in Thailand, I was very surprised. Truly USA is an overpriced country with the only good thing being that jobs are high paying… and that’s it. I think the best thing in life is to have a remote job somehow + travel 50% of the time + stay w friends and family 50% of the time
  - KPGv2 1y ago
    > USA is an overpriced country The USA is ranked sixth in purchasing power in the world, meaning we are definitionally underpriced. The countries that have even more purchasing power are: Norway, Macau, Bermuda, Singapore, and Luxembourg. https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
    - MandieD 1y ago
      Let's see... two tiny countries that specialize in finance, a city-state that is the historic trade hub for the region, another that is the historic gambling hub for the region, and a low-population country that won the oil lottery and has been smart enough not to let its residents get high on their own supply, thus avoiding the worst of "the resource curse."
    - epolanski 1y ago
      Idk, as an European, coming to US 20/10 years ago was cheaper than traveling Europe. Today? You're easily paying 3/400$ per night in Manhattan and other cities. Same is true for dining, museums, transport. Everything is insanely expensive compared to what it was just few years ago. Services are even more expensive.
- 1y ago

Rebelgecko 1y ago

I guess the good news is now we can ask the server their marginal tax rate and reduce our tips accordingly

colechristensen 1y ago

I do like the idea of people doing stuff for free for the public benefit and asking quietly for tips on topic with the article re: "digital creators".

edoceo 1y ago
Flattr - are they still around? Edit: closed in 2023 after 14 years.

viraptor 1y ago

> since we're already tip-fatigued Bluetti hit the "are you actually fucking serious?" level for me with the tips. They ask you for a % tip when you order online from them. No employee contact, no consultation. I just added a $2k item to the basket, tried to pay and got an invitation to tip extra.

thayne 1y ago

Yeah, this is going to incentivize businesses to try and make as much of their employees' pay come from tips, which means consumers will be expected to pay more tips, which is the opposite direction I want it to go.