4 ms·

Love this. Step in the correct direction. Property Taxes are coming under fire next, and given their long racist history, it's about time.

crazygringo 1y ago
Is it? Why should tip income not be taxed but other income should be? How is that fair? What principle makes that just? Are bartenders and servers more deserving of avoiding taxes than cooks and janitors, for some reason?
- bdcravens 1y ago
  It's not about benefitting the employees, but the employers. It's meant to push back against livable wages.
  - alchemical_piss 1y ago
    The employers already had all kinds of bizarre tricks to keep tipped workers down. My girlfriend works for a local chain restaurant. Some of the things she tells me about seem like they shouldn’t be legal (forcing everyone’s cash tips to be pooled with non tipped teenagers they don’t want to pay, for example. Pretty sure the company has had previous class actions against them. This was just a small local chain in a middle/upper middle class suburb. I saw a post on Nextdoor the other day where another restaurant closed, laying off the workers without paying them for hours worked. The general consensus about how to get the money you worked for: you don’t. The state has no labor board and there was little option for recourse.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  Not that I'm a fan of tipping culture or the "creator" economy, but it seems like tips and donations to your favorite youtuber are obviously gifts to me? From irs.gov: > You make a gift if you give property (including money), or the use of or income from property, without expecting to receive something of at least equal value in return. Which is obviously true for tips and donations. If it is a gift, then the giver owes taxes, and there is a $19k/year/recipient exclusion, so small gifts like this would always be exempt.
- apercu 1y ago
  Agreed. Why aren’t capital gains taxed at a higher rate than income? (Please don’t give me bullshit answers based on hundred year old economic theories just because you’re a wanna be libertarian)
  - ta1243 1y ago
    Because rich people earn more from capital gains than income?
  - opo 1y ago
    >Why aren’t capital gains taxed at a higher rate than income? The federal capital gains rates are higher than the effective tax rates paid by a family making a median income, but I suspect you are asking why the capital gains rates are not higher than the highest marginal rates. One issue is simply that capital gains tax rates generally don't account for inflation. If you build a business over a few decades and sell it, much of the increase in value will be simply due to inflation. Do you want to encourage long term investment, or make it so only financially illiterate people do long term investments?
- exabrial 1y ago
  Progress, not perfection.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    Towards what? No taxes at all? That's not desirable if you want things like public schools and rule of law. And if you want more progressive taxation, then support more progressive taxation. Treating classes of workers differently is not a way to get to more equitable progressive taxation.
bdcravens 1y ago
I suspect much of the attacks against property taxes aren't to right any historical wrongs, but is part of the attack against public education, since property taxes are a major source of funding.
- briandear 1y ago
  No. It’s the idea that you’re renting your paid off home from the government. And the government gets to decide what it’s worth.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    No, you're renting the physical space -- a scarce part of the commons -- from your community. (I do think property taxes should be a land-value tax and not include improvements you've built.)
    - happyopossum 1y ago
      > No, you're renting the physical space -- a scarce part of the commons -- from your community. Property law in the US and most western democracies doesn’t remotely agree with that. Land is not a communal or solely government owned resource, and the govt doesn’t ‘rent’ it out.
      - brewdad 1y ago
        Stop paying your property taxes in the US and see how long it takes before the government forecloses. It is effectively rent under a different name. In exchange the government will protect your property ownership rights so that you don't go on vacation and find someone else now gets to claim your home since you weren't there to stop them. Note: I think this is a good thing and that property taxes are vital to our local communities well-being.
xnx 1y ago
What is you idea for how to collect revenue for government services? Import taxes?
- exabrial 1y ago
  Ideally: nothing.
  - velcrovan 1y ago
    Places like that exist. You should try living there, see how you like the quality of life.
    - gamblor956 1y ago
      I hear Somalia is a wonderful place to live if you've got a lot of money and your own army to defend it.
    - exabrial 1y ago
      I can't because people wont leave me alone.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - eddythompson80 1y ago
        What do you mean? Who is stopping you from moving to Dubai?
  - SnuffBox 1y ago
    I'm a libertarian but I know it is impossible for a society to exist without even just a few taxes.

crazygringo 1y ago

Is it? Why should tip income not be taxed but other income should be? How is that fair? What principle makes that just? Are bartenders and servers more deserving of avoiding taxes than cooks and janitors, for some reason?

bdcravens 1y ago
It's not about benefitting the employees, but the employers. It's meant to push back against livable wages.
- alchemical_piss 1y ago
  The employers already had all kinds of bizarre tricks to keep tipped workers down. My girlfriend works for a local chain restaurant. Some of the things she tells me about seem like they shouldn’t be legal (forcing everyone’s cash tips to be pooled with non tipped teenagers they don’t want to pay, for example. Pretty sure the company has had previous class actions against them. This was just a small local chain in a middle/upper middle class suburb. I saw a post on Nextdoor the other day where another restaurant closed, laying off the workers without paying them for hours worked. The general consensus about how to get the money you worked for: you don’t. The state has no labor board and there was little option for recourse.
ndriscoll 1y ago
Not that I'm a fan of tipping culture or the "creator" economy, but it seems like tips and donations to your favorite youtuber are obviously gifts to me? From irs.gov: > You make a gift if you give property (including money), or the use of or income from property, without expecting to receive something of at least equal value in return. Which is obviously true for tips and donations. If it is a gift, then the giver owes taxes, and there is a $19k/year/recipient exclusion, so small gifts like this would always be exempt.
apercu 1y ago
Agreed. Why aren’t capital gains taxed at a higher rate than income? (Please don’t give me bullshit answers based on hundred year old economic theories just because you’re a wanna be libertarian)
- ta1243 1y ago
  Because rich people earn more from capital gains than income?
- opo 1y ago
  >Why aren’t capital gains taxed at a higher rate than income? The federal capital gains rates are higher than the effective tax rates paid by a family making a median income, but I suspect you are asking why the capital gains rates are not higher than the highest marginal rates. One issue is simply that capital gains tax rates generally don't account for inflation. If you build a business over a few decades and sell it, much of the increase in value will be simply due to inflation. Do you want to encourage long term investment, or make it so only financially illiterate people do long term investments?
exabrial 1y ago
Progress, not perfection.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  Towards what? No taxes at all? That's not desirable if you want things like public schools and rule of law. And if you want more progressive taxation, then support more progressive taxation. Treating classes of workers differently is not a way to get to more equitable progressive taxation.

bdcravens 1y ago

I suspect much of the attacks against property taxes aren't to right any historical wrongs, but is part of the attack against public education, since property taxes are a major source of funding.

briandear 1y ago
No. It’s the idea that you’re renting your paid off home from the government. And the government gets to decide what it’s worth.
- kelnos 1y ago
  No, you're renting the physical space -- a scarce part of the commons -- from your community. (I do think property taxes should be a land-value tax and not include improvements you've built.)
  - happyopossum 1y ago
    > No, you're renting the physical space -- a scarce part of the commons -- from your community. Property law in the US and most western democracies doesn’t remotely agree with that. Land is not a communal or solely government owned resource, and the govt doesn’t ‘rent’ it out.
    - brewdad 1y ago
      Stop paying your property taxes in the US and see how long it takes before the government forecloses. It is effectively rent under a different name. In exchange the government will protect your property ownership rights so that you don't go on vacation and find someone else now gets to claim your home since you weren't there to stop them. Note: I think this is a good thing and that property taxes are vital to our local communities well-being.

xnx 1y ago

What is you idea for how to collect revenue for government services? Import taxes?

exabrial 1y ago
Ideally: nothing.
- velcrovan 1y ago
  Places like that exist. You should try living there, see how you like the quality of life.
  - gamblor956 1y ago
    I hear Somalia is a wonderful place to live if you've got a lot of money and your own army to defend it.
  - exabrial 1y ago
    I can't because people wont leave me alone.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - eddythompson80 1y ago
      What do you mean? Who is stopping you from moving to Dubai?
- SnuffBox 1y ago
  I'm a libertarian but I know it is impossible for a society to exist without even just a few taxes.