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> They are two co-equal countries Palestine is not a country. > it assumes that israel deserves security from Palestine in greater measure than Palestine des

> They are two co-equal countries Palestine is not a country. > it assumes that israel deserves security from Palestine in greater measure than Palestine deserves security from israel I dont think anyone deserves anything. Natural rights are as real as religion. Everything we have we had to fight tirelessly for. All the rights we have we created. So questions of who deserves what are absurd. The question is, is it is moral for me to force israel to put up for terrorism. I certainly dont think its moral to force the palestinians to put up with terrorism, but Im not doing that. I have no problem with them trying to stop israel from oppressing them, the issue is they cant, and every time they try they make things worse for themselves. It is hard for me to say people arent justified in defending themselves. The holocaust had nothing to do with the nazis defending themselves. I agree a lot of the israeli electorate is just racist but a considerable part of it just wants to feel safe and, probably correctly, thinks the only way to accomplish that is not letting the palestinians live close to them. The palestinians feel the same way for what its worth, they are just unable to act on those feelings.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> Palestine is not a country. Of course it is: "As of March 2025, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 147 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 76% of all UN members" [0]. Yes, the world has decided that Palestine is a country, just like it did for israel, and the few countries that don't like it can sit and stew, because their feelings on the matter have been voiced, heard, and outvoted. Indeed, any argument that Palestine is not a country applies equally to israel, and disclaiming the existence of Palestine as a country is at least as vile as disclaiming the existence of israel as a country. What does israel call people who do that? > I dont think anyone deserves anything. Nihilism is a valid opinion to hold, but while I'm sure you're a good person, what any 1 person in the world thinks, is a fraction of a billionth as relevant as what the majority of countries think, and the latter is clearly codified in international law. In short, the debate of "does anyone deserve anything?" was already held, the side of "no" lost, and the world doesn't currently seem interested in israel's desire to re-debate the matter. > The question is, is it is moral for me to force israel to put up for terrorism That is a question, sure. An equal question that must be addressed simultaneously is, is it moral for us to force Palestine to put up with israel's terrorism? They are, after all, 2 co-equal countries with equal rights. > The holocaust had nothing to do with the nazis defending themselves. Likewise, israel's holocaust of innocent Palestininan civilians has nothing to do with protecting itself. The unconvincing claims of self-defense israel has made, exactly mirror the unconvincing claims of self-defense that nazi germany made: In both cases, the genociders have claimed their genocide is righteous because they are the chosen people; and their victims deserve it because they're lesser, they're not even people, they're "animals" (quoting both israel and nazi germany here); and certainly the chosen people must defend themselves from animals, and of course that means cleansing the land of the animals and availing themselves of their god-given right to rule over it in ethno-religious supremacy forever. That doesn't sound like "self-defense" to me. Never again means never again. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_P...
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  You are not a country if you have no sovereignty over your land. Anyone calling palestine a country is not being honest, they know it is not true. At best it is a colony of israel. > An equal question that must be addressed simultaneously is, is it moral for us to force Palestine to put up with israel's terrorism? I agree this is a good question. I really dont think its quite as simple as you are trying to make it out to be. The claims Israel makes about their safety are very convincing imo. The palesinians were launching rockets non stop after the israelis left gaza. The nazis never faced any threat like that from the jews. I still am against the genocide but brushing off israeli concerns is a large reason for why they found a genocide to be necessary. Of course you will turn that around as more evidence from why israel is evil but maybe it would be more productive if you tried to see things in their shoes. They have all the power here so any conclusion has to be one they accept.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago

> Palestine is not a country. Of course it is: "As of March 2025, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 147 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 76% of all UN members" [0]. Yes, the world has decided that Palestine is a country, just like it did for israel, and the few countries that don't like it can sit and stew, because their feelings on the matter have been voiced, heard, and outvoted. Indeed, any argument that Palestine is not a country applies equally to israel, and disclaiming the existence of Palestine as a country is at least as vile as disclaiming the existence of israel as a country. What does israel call people who do that? > I dont think anyone deserves anything. Nihilism is a valid opinion to hold, but while I'm sure you're a good person, what any 1 person in the world thinks, is a fraction of a billionth as relevant as what the majority of countries think, and the latter is clearly codified in international law. In short, the debate of "does anyone deserve anything?" was already held, the side of "no" lost, and the world doesn't currently seem interested in israel's desire to re-debate the matter. > The question is, is it is moral for me to force israel to put up for terrorism That is a question, sure. An equal question that must be addressed simultaneously is, is it moral for us to force Palestine to put up with israel's terrorism? They are, after all, 2 co-equal countries with equal rights. > The holocaust had nothing to do with the nazis defending themselves. Likewise, israel's holocaust of innocent Palestininan civilians has nothing to do with protecting itself. The unconvincing claims of self-defense israel has made, exactly mirror the unconvincing claims of self-defense that nazi germany made: In both cases, the genociders have claimed their genocide is righteous because they are the chosen people; and their victims deserve it because they're lesser, they're not even people, they're "animals" (quoting both israel and nazi germany here); and certainly the chosen people must defend themselves from animals, and of course that means cleansing the land of the animals and availing themselves of their god-given right to rule over it in ethno-religious supremacy forever. That doesn't sound like "self-defense" to me. Never again means never again. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_P...

HDThoreaun 1y ago
You are not a country if you have no sovereignty over your land. Anyone calling palestine a country is not being honest, they know it is not true. At best it is a colony of israel. > An equal question that must be addressed simultaneously is, is it moral for us to force Palestine to put up with israel's terrorism? I agree this is a good question. I really dont think its quite as simple as you are trying to make it out to be. The claims Israel makes about their safety are very convincing imo. The palesinians were launching rockets non stop after the israelis left gaza. The nazis never faced any threat like that from the jews. I still am against the genocide but brushing off israeli concerns is a large reason for why they found a genocide to be necessary. Of course you will turn that around as more evidence from why israel is evil but maybe it would be more productive if you tried to see things in their shoes. They have all the power here so any conclusion has to be one they accept.