4 ms·

Are they surprised? Why on earth would anyone want to switch to 11? Getting rid of the customisable/movable taskbar and replacing it with the god-awful Mac-sty

Are they surprised? Why on earth would anyone want to switch to 11? Getting rid of the customisable/movable taskbar and replacing it with the god-awful Mac-style centre menu was an absolute travesty of design. Similarly, replacing functional control panel dialogs with the "settings app". The insistence on packaging programs as "app bundles". Then there's the slew of useless always-online garbage, which literally nobody asked for, and which basically amounts to user-hostile spyware. MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago, and anything beyond that has been pointless tinkering at best, or actual regression of usability at worst.

dijit 1y ago
it's also sloooow, which makes me wonder if that's the real reason for their hardware requirements and locking out old CPUs that are perfectly servicable. "What Andy give us, Bill taketh away" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law
metalliqaz 1y ago
I'm running Win11 right now and I have customized my taskbar to look like it was on Win10.
- jamesnorden 1y ago
  Now move it to the top of the screen without 3rd party software.
  - poisonborz 1y ago
    And after you do, enjoy some maximized windows and notifications covering it.
  - eviks 1y ago
    > without 3rd party software Why is that a requirement?
    - ga_to 1y ago
      Because 10 supported that.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  Yeah, you can’t move it away from the bottom of the screen, but it doesn’t have to look like the macOS Dock. With a couple of toggles it operates mostly like a traditional taskbar.
- smusamashah 1y ago
  https://github.com/dremin/RetroBar https://github.com/dremin/RetroBar to have customisable Windows 98/XP like taskbar
dwringer 1y ago
When I learned the taskbar can't be placed on the side vertically is when I realized I'm never going to install Windows 11. That combined with 10 being advertised as "the last Windows I'll ever need to buy" and the fact their updater told me I have to replace my entire PC to be eligible to install it (in spite of the fact that I merely need to turn on a BIOS setting and my system would fully support it), then the notice that they'd be selling 1-year support contract extensions for anyone staying on 10... What's next, Windows declares itself outright as ransomware and holds my data hostage? I'm imagining a full screen overlay appears: "Nice OS install you've got here... Would be a shame if something... happened to it."
- dinfinity 1y ago
  Tip for enrolling in the Extended Security Updates for Win10: https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases > What’s new in Flyoobe 1.7.284 > This update is especially important for everyone still on Windows 10 who plans to stay there and take advantage of the Extended Security Updates (ESU) program. Also in 1.10 stable, of course.
pjc50 1y ago
You can actually move the taskbar to the left, but you can no longer have it vertically :/ > The insistence on packaging programs as "app bundles". I don't think appx is too bad on its own - the operating system should have a package manager, it provides a means of handling common dependencies (although this was for WinUI3, which is kind of dead), and both MSI and CAB are very old, weird file formats. The UWP sandboxing .. I can see why they did it, protection against malicious apps, but it completely handicaps desktop apps. > Then there's the slew of useless always-online garbage, which literally nobody asked for, and which basically amounts to user-hostile spyware. Yes, this is Bad and the sort of thing the EU should start leaning on. > MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable. The modern era swept that away in favor of "looks nice to minimalists", and I think it's a loss.
- bediger4000 1y ago
  Flat design is a travesty. You can't tell what you can click/tap delicately, so touching the screen at all becomes an adventure.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  >> MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago > The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable. It makes you wonder what would have happened if Microsoft had frozen Windows core UI features at 7 and instead invested the countless person-years of UI (re-)development elsewhere...
kenhwang 1y ago
The biggest problem I have with 11 is how unstable it is. Almost seems like there's a new BSOD trigger or data corruption bug introduced every month by Microsoft themselves, and 3rd party drivers fare even worse. A bunch of explorer and start menu random crashes too. 7 and 10 never caused this much headache for me.
philistine 1y ago
The new taskbar is nothing like the macOS dock; you can put the dock to the left or right of the screen, and I never expect this user feature to go away. Apple is quick to get rid of older APIs, but they're better than Microsoft at keeping user features.
- reaperducer 1y ago
  I never expect this user feature to go away. It will. They all do, eventually. Never get used to anything in the tech industry, because tomorrow it will be gone.
fruitworks 1y ago
new hardware compatibility. w10 users will be eeked out whether they like it or not
daft_pink 1y ago
The reason you use Windows 11 is because you have some legacy software that needs it or your work requires it or you are a gamer. Otherwise Mac OS is soooo much better and the hardware is so much better and if there weren’t ai most people would never have to upgrade from Mac M1. They also need to stop dumping spyware and forcing people into onedrive etc.
- card_zero 1y ago
  Or because lots of other people use it and you're developing for them, though I guess that comes under "your work requires it". The reason I'm not using a Mac is because of their walled garden, the gross intent to control all the devs. This is admittedly very trendy right now and Google and Microsoft are at it too.
  - daft_pink 1y ago
    The reason I don’t consider Linux is: * I want a single company responsible for security on my computer. Apple has a highly paid professional team to respond for any security updates and configuration. I have a linux server and there is no easy way to get that kind of support. I’m happy to pay a reasonable price for this. * I need some legacy software like Microsoft Excel. Mac’s tend to have more professionally developed third party software like Microsoft Excel, Adobe, Raycast, etc. Those are really the two big frictions that I find with using anything other than Windows and Mac.
BizarroLand 1y ago
If you find yourself required to use windows 11, consider running Flyoobe: https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe It can be run after install to disable AI/Apps/experience crap that M$ forces on you. Also, remember to disable app updates in M$ store or it will just reinstall everything you uninstalled on every reboot.
- mos_basik 1y ago
  getting a 404 on that link. Found an archive link and a fork or two. https://web.archive.org/web/20250909050314/https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe https://web.archive.org/web/20250909050314/https://github.co...
  - BizarroLand 1y ago
    Strange. I had just grabbed their latest update from earlier today. I wonder if someone took them down or something.

dijit 1y ago

it's also sloooow, which makes me wonder if that's the real reason for their hardware requirements and locking out old CPUs that are perfectly servicable. "What Andy give us, Bill taketh away" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law

metalliqaz 1y ago

I'm running Win11 right now and I have customized my taskbar to look like it was on Win10.

jamesnorden 1y ago
Now move it to the top of the screen without 3rd party software.
- poisonborz 1y ago
  And after you do, enjoy some maximized windows and notifications covering it.
- eviks 1y ago
  > without 3rd party software Why is that a requirement?
  - ga_to 1y ago
    Because 10 supported that.
cosmic_cheese 1y ago
Yeah, you can’t move it away from the bottom of the screen, but it doesn’t have to look like the macOS Dock. With a couple of toggles it operates mostly like a traditional taskbar.
smusamashah 1y ago
https://github.com/dremin/RetroBar https://github.com/dremin/RetroBar to have customisable Windows 98/XP like taskbar

dwringer 1y ago

When I learned the taskbar can't be placed on the side vertically is when I realized I'm never going to install Windows 11. That combined with 10 being advertised as "the last Windows I'll ever need to buy" and the fact their updater told me I have to replace my entire PC to be eligible to install it (in spite of the fact that I merely need to turn on a BIOS setting and my system would fully support it), then the notice that they'd be selling 1-year support contract extensions for anyone staying on 10... What's next, Windows declares itself outright as ransomware and holds my data hostage? I'm imagining a full screen overlay appears: "Nice OS install you've got here... Would be a shame if something... happened to it."

dinfinity 1y ago
Tip for enrolling in the Extended Security Updates for Win10: https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases > What’s new in Flyoobe 1.7.284 > This update is especially important for everyone still on Windows 10 who plans to stay there and take advantage of the Extended Security Updates (ESU) program. Also in 1.10 stable, of course.

pjc50 1y ago

You can actually move the taskbar to the left, but you can no longer have it vertically :/ > The insistence on packaging programs as "app bundles". I don't think appx is too bad on its own - the operating system should have a package manager, it provides a means of handling common dependencies (although this was for WinUI3, which is kind of dead), and both MSI and CAB are very old, weird file formats. The UWP sandboxing .. I can see why they did it, protection against malicious apps, but it completely handicaps desktop apps. > Then there's the slew of useless always-online garbage, which literally nobody asked for, and which basically amounts to user-hostile spyware. Yes, this is Bad and the sort of thing the EU should start leaning on. > MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable. The modern era swept that away in favor of "looks nice to minimalists", and I think it's a loss.

bediger4000 1y ago
Flat design is a travesty. You can't tell what you can click/tap delicately, so touching the screen at all becomes an adventure.
ethbr1 1y ago
>> MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago > The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable. It makes you wonder what would have happened if Microsoft had frozen Windows core UI features at 7 and instead invested the countless person-years of UI (re-)development elsewhere...

kenhwang 1y ago

The biggest problem I have with 11 is how unstable it is. Almost seems like there's a new BSOD trigger or data corruption bug introduced every month by Microsoft themselves, and 3rd party drivers fare even worse. A bunch of explorer and start menu random crashes too. 7 and 10 never caused this much headache for me.

philistine 1y ago

The new taskbar is nothing like the macOS dock; you can put the dock to the left or right of the screen, and I never expect this user feature to go away. Apple is quick to get rid of older APIs, but they're better than Microsoft at keeping user features.

reaperducer 1y ago
I never expect this user feature to go away. It will. They all do, eventually. Never get used to anything in the tech industry, because tomorrow it will be gone.

fruitworks 1y ago

new hardware compatibility. w10 users will be eeked out whether they like it or not

daft_pink 1y ago

The reason you use Windows 11 is because you have some legacy software that needs it or your work requires it or you are a gamer. Otherwise Mac OS is soooo much better and the hardware is so much better and if there weren’t ai most people would never have to upgrade from Mac M1. They also need to stop dumping spyware and forcing people into onedrive etc.

card_zero 1y ago
Or because lots of other people use it and you're developing for them, though I guess that comes under "your work requires it". The reason I'm not using a Mac is because of their walled garden, the gross intent to control all the devs. This is admittedly very trendy right now and Google and Microsoft are at it too.
- daft_pink 1y ago
  The reason I don’t consider Linux is: * I want a single company responsible for security on my computer. Apple has a highly paid professional team to respond for any security updates and configuration. I have a linux server and there is no easy way to get that kind of support. I’m happy to pay a reasonable price for this. * I need some legacy software like Microsoft Excel. Mac’s tend to have more professionally developed third party software like Microsoft Excel, Adobe, Raycast, etc. Those are really the two big frictions that I find with using anything other than Windows and Mac.

BizarroLand 1y ago

If you find yourself required to use windows 11, consider running Flyoobe: https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe It can be run after install to disable AI/Apps/experience crap that M$ forces on you. Also, remember to disable app updates in M$ store or it will just reinstall everything you uninstalled on every reboot.

mos_basik 1y ago
getting a 404 on that link. Found an archive link and a fork or two. https://web.archive.org/web/20250909050314/https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe https://web.archive.org/web/20250909050314/https://github.co...
- BizarroLand 1y ago
  Strange. I had just grabbed their latest update from earlier today. I wonder if someone took them down or something.