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I’m an actual progressive who believes government should serve the interests of working people. We don’t have a party for people like me in the United States a

by CPLX 1y ago

I’m an actual progressive who believes government should serve the interests of working people. We don’t have a party for people like me in the United States any more, we just have two different movements to support corporate hegemony. And possibly even more corrosive, we’ve just completely stopped enforcing the law against elites. It’s shocking how lawless the world has become, from securities fraud to labor violations to bribery. I believe there should be strict labor laws that leads to safety and high wages and that multinational companies should not be allowed to evade them to exploit workers. For most of history that’s just a classic pillar of the progressive left. And by the way it’s almost certainly a majority opinion in this country. The fact that it seems like an alien point of view is a reflection of how completely off the rails the modern political discourse is.

komali2 1y ago
> And possibly even more corrosive, we’ve just completely stopped enforcing the law against elites. It’s shocking how lawless the world has become, from securities fraud to labor violations to bribery. Well, right, then, this is a leftist position, but that's why I was surprised that you supported any action at all against the workers who suffered the enforcement action. It seems to me the workers are beings scapegoated for right wing propaganda while the ownership class will continue to not suffer any consequences. > The fact that it seems like an alien point of view is a reflection of how completely off the rails the modern political discourse is. Yes, I sympathize with leftists in the USA. I can't imagine a more alienating environment. The disconnect between the political system + media, and the actual on-the-ground feelings of the people there, is just incomprehensibly vast.
- CPLX 1y ago
  > Well, right, then, this is a leftist position, but that's why I was surprised that you supported any action at all against the workers who suffered the enforcement action. It seems to me the workers are beings scapegoated for right wing propaganda while the ownership class will continue to not suffer any consequences. Raiding a huge multi-billion dollar project run by a globally important company, and effectively shutting down a project like this at least for awhile, is absolutely not how enforcement actions are usually done. There's a huge distinction between doing stuff like this and picking up people trying to day day labor in Home Depot parking lots. It's unfortunate that the individual workers are the ones in handcuffs but at the end of the day if you're going to have rules that stop people from working illegally someone is going to have to be able to show up and remove people working illegally from a job site. If you rule something like that out you don't have laws at all. Doing this to a powerful company is not normal. That's what makes this situation so unusual and interesting, and why I'm arguing in this thread against people that seem to be making knee-jerk reactions based on who's involved.

by CPLX 1y ago

komali2 1y ago

> And possibly even more corrosive, we’ve just completely stopped enforcing the law against elites. It’s shocking how lawless the world has become, from securities fraud to labor violations to bribery. Well, right, then, this is a leftist position, but that's why I was surprised that you supported any action at all against the workers who suffered the enforcement action. It seems to me the workers are beings scapegoated for right wing propaganda while the ownership class will continue to not suffer any consequences. > The fact that it seems like an alien point of view is a reflection of how completely off the rails the modern political discourse is. Yes, I sympathize with leftists in the USA. I can't imagine a more alienating environment. The disconnect between the political system + media, and the actual on-the-ground feelings of the people there, is just incomprehensibly vast.

CPLX 1y ago
> Well, right, then, this is a leftist position, but that's why I was surprised that you supported any action at all against the workers who suffered the enforcement action. It seems to me the workers are beings scapegoated for right wing propaganda while the ownership class will continue to not suffer any consequences. Raiding a huge multi-billion dollar project run by a globally important company, and effectively shutting down a project like this at least for awhile, is absolutely not how enforcement actions are usually done. There's a huge distinction between doing stuff like this and picking up people trying to day day labor in Home Depot parking lots. It's unfortunate that the individual workers are the ones in handcuffs but at the end of the day if you're going to have rules that stop people from working illegally someone is going to have to be able to show up and remove people working illegally from a job site. If you rule something like that out you don't have laws at all. Doing this to a powerful company is not normal. That's what makes this situation so unusual and interesting, and why I'm arguing in this thread against people that seem to be making knee-jerk reactions based on who's involved.