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For those who don't know it, this is the name the department has had for most of its history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_War ht

For those who don't know it, this is the name the department has had for most of its history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_... This is a good name even if you are against wars like I am. Calling it "Defense" just gives the wrong impression that most of the money goes towards "defending" ourselves instead of attacking others. We should avoid euphemisms when naming government agencies.

altacc 1y ago
The history justification is moot given that the reason for the name wasn't clarifying an existing role (the US is already very aggressive militarily and happy to attack whenever and wherever it pleases) instead the justification that went with the naming is that the US should be even more aggressive. That, as well as not being necessary or wanted by the world, goes counter to Trump's pre-election promise not to involve the US in more foreign wars.
- b112 1y ago
  the US is already very aggressive militarily and happy to attack whenever and wherever it pleases Completely untrue, because a statement such as this requires counter examples, comparators. Compare the US to any colonial power. Such countries were hell bent on ruling the world. The Brits had the largest empire the world has ever seen, boots on ground in dozens of colonies. And everyone in Europe was invading each other, their colonies endlessly and constantly. Compared to the scale and scope of action those colonial powers undertook, the US is the most peaceful and benevolent country ever. Modern comparisons show much the same. For example, Canada was more than a decade in Afghanistan. Canada is not war like, but does think stamping out oppressive regimes is a good idea. Canada also has blue hats in multiple countries. Those sort of actions may turn out poorly, but the intentions are not to harm but help. And yes, I agree that is debatable except we're talking about the statement I quoted. And when you look at truly aggressive nations, such as Russia, again no comparison. When recently has the US invaded a country, with the goal of taking it over and absorbing it? That's right, never in living memory. If US truly did what it had the power to do, it could have easily taken over the world. Has it? Did it invade everyone? No. Yes, the US does deploy its military might. Yes, maybe it should less often. No, it isn't aggressive, it's just very powerful. I would very much argue it restrains its use of power mightily.
  - altacc 1y ago
    If this was Reddit I'd ask you what you were smoking! ;) Calling the U.S. ‘peaceful and benevolent’ overlooks the sheer volume, aims and consequences of its military actions. It may not colonize in the traditional sense but its interventions often reshape nations in the US' favour, often violently, without accountability and leaving the populace of those countries much worse off than before. I think it's not wise to judge present day against history as we should be aiming for improvement over time but if we look at recent history the US has a history of destabilising governments, often democracies, in favour of a more US aligned government. Often these efforts fail and the country descends into chaos. In others it leads to a government that uses death squads to help US businesses (see the banana republics). Russia's aims in Ukraine were mostly likely to install a Russian aligned leader. This is similar to the USA's history of installing or supporting anti-democratic leaders. So whilst the US might not be absorbing countries but that shouldn't be the only metric for control. Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan was under UN mandates and I agree that peace keeping forces are often good but that is not comparable to US military interventions. The US often acts unilaterally, or with limited partners and lack of widespread support. With 251 military interventions since 1991 [1] we can cherry pick the best and worse uses of force, and I agree that sometimes force is needed, but I see the long term trend that the intention is indeed to help but it is mostly to help US interests. Consider as well that colonial Britain (and other colonial powers) also thought they were being helpful and bettering their colonies by bring "civilisation". Just because you think or state your aims are good doesn't make them so. I'd argue that whilst the US could definitely not take over the world militarily (see how often it fails to take over a country) it already has in large part due to trade and culture and this is why it fears China so much, as China is now a rival for that power. [1] https://towardfreedom.org/story/archives/americas/u-s-launched-251-military-interventions-since-1991-and-469-since-1798/ https://towardfreedom.org/story/archives/americas/u-s-launch...
    - b112 1y ago
      I think you're providing a counter point, but at the same time I don't believe it's inline with my concept. For example, imagine the immense scope and power and capability the US had over all its adversaries in ... say, the 90s. The Soviets gone, Russia in chaos, China not a world power. Now give that power to colonial UK, which fervently believed in the right to rule the world. The result would most assuredly been "For King and Country, God save the Queen!", and taking their already immense empire to new heights. Imagine giving that power to Germany during WWII. We'd all be speaking German now. From where I sit, this is what I refer to as "peaceful and benevolent", compared to colonial powers. Back to your modern response, re: Russia has already absorbed part of the Ukraine, back in 2014. It annexed Crimea with zero intention of leaving, not for any political reason. Its current invasion of the rest of the Ukraine, should not be viewed as just pressuring for political control, Putin has already clearly demonstrated a desire for more than that, in taking Crimea. Regardless, Crimea alone proves my point. -- When I search text on your provided link, I find no match for UN, United Nations, peace or peace keeping. The US has interceded under the UN in endless operations. How many of the 251 were just that? The link does not say. Again, yes, the US does project its power. Yes, maybe it should not be as much as it does. However, compared to Germany circa WWII, colonial powers, and modern aggressors such as Russia, it is indeed 'peaceful and benevolent'. Especially considering the power it has, and most especially has had.
cyanydeez 1y ago
Yawn. "We really should be regrsssive cause of history" Next youll tell us black people should really be slaves or go back to africa. Thanks gyy
brainzap 1y ago
1$ of every iphone you buy goes to War
dghf 1y ago
> For those who don't know it, this is the name the department has had for most of its history Not really. It's the old name of the Department of the Army. Except for the first nine years of the DoW's existence, the Navy had its own, independent department, as did the USAF once it was established as a separate branch. The Department of Defense didn't exist until after WW2, and was called the National Military Establishment for the first couple of years. You see a similar pattern in the UK, which had the War Office for the Army, the Admiralty for the Royal Navy and the Air Ministry for the RAF: after WW2, the Ministry of Defence was created, initially liaising and co-ordinating between the service ministries, and then fully absorbing and replacing them. tl;dr the Department of War is the old name of the Department of the Army, not of the Department of Defense.
mynameyeff 1y ago
Precisely, it is Orwellian to attempt to misdirect people using language.
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  No one older than 13 is confused about this. It's imprecise (as is Department of War), not Orwellian.

altacc 1y ago

The history justification is moot given that the reason for the name wasn't clarifying an existing role (the US is already very aggressive militarily and happy to attack whenever and wherever it pleases) instead the justification that went with the naming is that the US should be even more aggressive. That, as well as not being necessary or wanted by the world, goes counter to Trump's pre-election promise not to involve the US in more foreign wars.

b112 1y ago
the US is already very aggressive militarily and happy to attack whenever and wherever it pleases Completely untrue, because a statement such as this requires counter examples, comparators. Compare the US to any colonial power. Such countries were hell bent on ruling the world. The Brits had the largest empire the world has ever seen, boots on ground in dozens of colonies. And everyone in Europe was invading each other, their colonies endlessly and constantly. Compared to the scale and scope of action those colonial powers undertook, the US is the most peaceful and benevolent country ever. Modern comparisons show much the same. For example, Canada was more than a decade in Afghanistan. Canada is not war like, but does think stamping out oppressive regimes is a good idea. Canada also has blue hats in multiple countries. Those sort of actions may turn out poorly, but the intentions are not to harm but help. And yes, I agree that is debatable except we're talking about the statement I quoted. And when you look at truly aggressive nations, such as Russia, again no comparison. When recently has the US invaded a country, with the goal of taking it over and absorbing it? That's right, never in living memory. If US truly did what it had the power to do, it could have easily taken over the world. Has it? Did it invade everyone? No. Yes, the US does deploy its military might. Yes, maybe it should less often. No, it isn't aggressive, it's just very powerful. I would very much argue it restrains its use of power mightily.
- altacc 1y ago
  If this was Reddit I'd ask you what you were smoking! ;) Calling the U.S. ‘peaceful and benevolent’ overlooks the sheer volume, aims and consequences of its military actions. It may not colonize in the traditional sense but its interventions often reshape nations in the US' favour, often violently, without accountability and leaving the populace of those countries much worse off than before. I think it's not wise to judge present day against history as we should be aiming for improvement over time but if we look at recent history the US has a history of destabilising governments, often democracies, in favour of a more US aligned government. Often these efforts fail and the country descends into chaos. In others it leads to a government that uses death squads to help US businesses (see the banana republics). Russia's aims in Ukraine were mostly likely to install a Russian aligned leader. This is similar to the USA's history of installing or supporting anti-democratic leaders. So whilst the US might not be absorbing countries but that shouldn't be the only metric for control. Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan was under UN mandates and I agree that peace keeping forces are often good but that is not comparable to US military interventions. The US often acts unilaterally, or with limited partners and lack of widespread support. With 251 military interventions since 1991 [1] we can cherry pick the best and worse uses of force, and I agree that sometimes force is needed, but I see the long term trend that the intention is indeed to help but it is mostly to help US interests. Consider as well that colonial Britain (and other colonial powers) also thought they were being helpful and bettering their colonies by bring "civilisation". Just because you think or state your aims are good doesn't make them so. I'd argue that whilst the US could definitely not take over the world militarily (see how often it fails to take over a country) it already has in large part due to trade and culture and this is why it fears China so much, as China is now a rival for that power. [1] https://towardfreedom.org/story/archives/americas/u-s-launched-251-military-interventions-since-1991-and-469-since-1798/ https://towardfreedom.org/story/archives/americas/u-s-launch...
  - b112 1y ago
    I think you're providing a counter point, but at the same time I don't believe it's inline with my concept. For example, imagine the immense scope and power and capability the US had over all its adversaries in ... say, the 90s. The Soviets gone, Russia in chaos, China not a world power. Now give that power to colonial UK, which fervently believed in the right to rule the world. The result would most assuredly been "For King and Country, God save the Queen!", and taking their already immense empire to new heights. Imagine giving that power to Germany during WWII. We'd all be speaking German now. From where I sit, this is what I refer to as "peaceful and benevolent", compared to colonial powers. Back to your modern response, re: Russia has already absorbed part of the Ukraine, back in 2014. It annexed Crimea with zero intention of leaving, not for any political reason. Its current invasion of the rest of the Ukraine, should not be viewed as just pressuring for political control, Putin has already clearly demonstrated a desire for more than that, in taking Crimea. Regardless, Crimea alone proves my point. -- When I search text on your provided link, I find no match for UN, United Nations, peace or peace keeping. The US has interceded under the UN in endless operations. How many of the 251 were just that? The link does not say. Again, yes, the US does project its power. Yes, maybe it should not be as much as it does. However, compared to Germany circa WWII, colonial powers, and modern aggressors such as Russia, it is indeed 'peaceful and benevolent'. Especially considering the power it has, and most especially has had.

cyanydeez 1y ago

Yawn. "We really should be regrsssive cause of history" Next youll tell us black people should really be slaves or go back to africa. Thanks gyy

brainzap 1y ago

1$ of every iphone you buy goes to War

dghf 1y ago

> For those who don't know it, this is the name the department has had for most of its history Not really. It's the old name of the Department of the Army. Except for the first nine years of the DoW's existence, the Navy had its own, independent department, as did the USAF once it was established as a separate branch. The Department of Defense didn't exist until after WW2, and was called the National Military Establishment for the first couple of years. You see a similar pattern in the UK, which had the War Office for the Army, the Admiralty for the Royal Navy and the Air Ministry for the RAF: after WW2, the Ministry of Defence was created, initially liaising and co-ordinating between the service ministries, and then fully absorbing and replacing them. tl;dr the Department of War is the old name of the Department of the Army, not of the Department of Defense.

mynameyeff 1y ago

Precisely, it is Orwellian to attempt to misdirect people using language.

cosmicgadget 1y ago
No one older than 13 is confused about this. It's imprecise (as is Department of War), not Orwellian.