4 ms·

Backdoor layoffs. It's always backdoor layoffs. If they really appreciated and needed you at the company, they would cater for your needs when you're delivering

Backdoor layoffs. It's always backdoor layoffs. If they really appreciated and needed you at the company, they would cater for your needs when you're delivering your work.

mrweasel 1y ago
If it's layoffs aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? So you're doing backdoor layoffs, but you're laying off the people you'd most likely want to keep, leaving the company with the less experienced/talented people.
- ReptileMan 1y ago
  >If it's layoffs aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? The corporate structure is not created around talented people, but around mediocrity. In Dilbert land you have no use for brainiacs. In my current environment one line bugfix takes 3-4 workdays to release. Does it matter one bit if you will do the fix in 10 or 100 minutes if it will be overshadowed by the time THE PROCESS consumes.
- lloeki 1y ago
  > aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? a.k.a Dead Sea effect
  - ThrowawayR2 1y ago
    Leave to where? All the other FAANGs and tech companies seem to be doing RTO as well. There's no "dead sea effect" because the less talented are also being flushed out by layoffs specifically targeting low performers. And the job market is so bad right now that there's absolutely no shortage of fresh talented folks to hire.
    - int_19h 1y ago
      NVIDIA is very remote-heavy with no plans to RTO.
- InsideOutSanta 1y ago
  This assumes that companies view their employees as individuals. At a certain scale, companies inevitably start viewing their employees as "resources" that behave more like robots than human beings. There is no way for somebody like Nadella to have an understanding of most employees' performance, and the chain of management is so long that he doesn't trust anyone else's ability to ascertain individual performance. This leads to the introduction of "objective measurements" of performance, which further undermines trust, as everyone now starts trying to manipulate the numbers. I think at some point, it's just inevitable that C-level management takes decisions based on the assumption that people are replaceable and that the difference between a great performer and a poor performer is essentially irrelevant.
  - thinkharderdev 1y ago
    > I think at some point, it's just inevitable that C-level management takes decisions based on the assumption that people are replaceable and that the difference between a great performer and a poor performer is essentially irrelevant. Maybe, but I find it hard to believe that someone who has spent their entire career in the tech industry actually believes this. The "backdoor layoffs" theory seems suspect to me more generally. It's not like they're particularly averse to doing layoffs the normal way. Especially now where the signal from big tech company doing layoffs is "we're really good at AI".
    - steveBK123 1y ago
      I mean we still have headlines coming like this https://fortune.com/2025/09/05/paramount-skydance-ceo-david-ellison-return-to-office-mandate/ https://fortune.com/2025/09/05/paramount-skydance-ceo-david-... A 10 day notice requiring agreement to full 5 day RTO or take a voluntary package. This from a CEO talking bout 'efficiency' and cost cutting, where I know people who have been 100% remote for 5 years. What are the odds those voluntary packages are worse than whatever contract & law specific in the case of layoffs. And I am sure the (very X/Musk/extreme hardcore coded) agreement employees sign agreeing to RTO means if they are fired later for office attendance its for-cause.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  > aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave company will probably write exceptions for those people into their contracts; my neighbor, a talented senior dev lead at BigTechCo, has it in his contract that he can WFH regardless of RTO calls
- int_19h 1y ago
  Have you seen some of the people whom they laid off in the recent waves of overt layoffs? There was a lot of talent unceremoniously dumped there.
ThrowawayB7 1y ago
Back in the real world, "Microsoft Layoffs Continue Into 5th Consecutive Month": https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-layoffs-continue-into-5th-consecutive-month/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-la... There's no reason to covertly plot convoluted "backdoor layoff" schemes when they're openly doing layoffs on a regular basis. "Backdoor layoffs" is a silly meme loved only by the sort of people prone to falling for conspiracy theories.
- int_19h 1y ago
  On the contrary, if anything, it's evidence in support of the point. It shows that Microsoft desires to trim its employee rolls. Now if you do a proper layoff, you have to pay people quite a lot of money. So if you can make at least some of them leave on their own, that's substantial savings.
  - ThrowawayB7 1y ago
    "Hey, let's increase our operating costs by over a hundred million per year _forever_ by doing RTO for a one time savings of a few million in severance packages of people who leave voluntarily." said nobody ever. Thank you for highlighting again how comedic these conspiracy theories are.

Backdoor layoffs. It's always backdoor layoffs. If they really appreciated and needed you at the company, they would cater for your needs when you're delivering your work.

mrweasel 1y ago

If it's layoffs aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? So you're doing backdoor layoffs, but you're laying off the people you'd most likely want to keep, leaving the company with the less experienced/talented people.

ReptileMan 1y ago
>If it's layoffs aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? The corporate structure is not created around talented people, but around mediocrity. In Dilbert land you have no use for brainiacs. In my current environment one line bugfix takes 3-4 workdays to release. Does it matter one bit if you will do the fix in 10 or 100 minutes if it will be overshadowed by the time THE PROCESS consumes.
lloeki 1y ago
> aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave, while the less talented returns to the office because they'll have a harder time finding new jobs? a.k.a Dead Sea effect
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  Leave to where? All the other FAANGs and tech companies seem to be doing RTO as well. There's no "dead sea effect" because the less talented are also being flushed out by layoffs specifically targeting low performers. And the job market is so bad right now that there's absolutely no shortage of fresh talented folks to hire.
  - int_19h 1y ago
    NVIDIA is very remote-heavy with no plans to RTO.
InsideOutSanta 1y ago
This assumes that companies view their employees as individuals. At a certain scale, companies inevitably start viewing their employees as "resources" that behave more like robots than human beings. There is no way for somebody like Nadella to have an understanding of most employees' performance, and the chain of management is so long that he doesn't trust anyone else's ability to ascertain individual performance. This leads to the introduction of "objective measurements" of performance, which further undermines trust, as everyone now starts trying to manipulate the numbers. I think at some point, it's just inevitable that C-level management takes decisions based on the assumption that people are replaceable and that the difference between a great performer and a poor performer is essentially irrelevant.
- thinkharderdev 1y ago
  > I think at some point, it's just inevitable that C-level management takes decisions based on the assumption that people are replaceable and that the difference between a great performer and a poor performer is essentially irrelevant. Maybe, but I find it hard to believe that someone who has spent their entire career in the tech industry actually believes this. The "backdoor layoffs" theory seems suspect to me more generally. It's not like they're particularly averse to doing layoffs the normal way. Especially now where the signal from big tech company doing layoffs is "we're really good at AI".
  - steveBK123 1y ago
    I mean we still have headlines coming like this https://fortune.com/2025/09/05/paramount-skydance-ceo-david-ellison-return-to-office-mandate/ https://fortune.com/2025/09/05/paramount-skydance-ceo-david-... A 10 day notice requiring agreement to full 5 day RTO or take a voluntary package. This from a CEO talking bout 'efficiency' and cost cutting, where I know people who have been 100% remote for 5 years. What are the odds those voluntary packages are worse than whatever contract & law specific in the case of layoffs. And I am sure the (very X/Musk/extreme hardcore coded) agreement employees sign agreeing to RTO means if they are fired later for office attendance its for-cause.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
> aren't there a very real risk that the most talented people, who enjoy working from home will simply leave company will probably write exceptions for those people into their contracts; my neighbor, a talented senior dev lead at BigTechCo, has it in his contract that he can WFH regardless of RTO calls
int_19h 1y ago
Have you seen some of the people whom they laid off in the recent waves of overt layoffs? There was a lot of talent unceremoniously dumped there.

ThrowawayB7 1y ago

Back in the real world, "Microsoft Layoffs Continue Into 5th Consecutive Month": https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-layoffs-continue-into-5th-consecutive-month/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-la... There's no reason to covertly plot convoluted "backdoor layoff" schemes when they're openly doing layoffs on a regular basis. "Backdoor layoffs" is a silly meme loved only by the sort of people prone to falling for conspiracy theories.

int_19h 1y ago
On the contrary, if anything, it's evidence in support of the point. It shows that Microsoft desires to trim its employee rolls. Now if you do a proper layoff, you have to pay people quite a lot of money. So if you can make at least some of them leave on their own, that's substantial savings.
- ThrowawayB7 1y ago
  "Hey, let's increase our operating costs by over a hundred million per year _forever_ by doing RTO for a one time savings of a few million in severance packages of people who leave voluntarily." said nobody ever. Thank you for highlighting again how comedic these conspiracy theories are.