5 ms·

there's no evidence/meta-analysis pointing e-ink screen tiring eyes more/less than LCD

by luqtas 1y ago

wolrah 1y ago
Is there any actual scientific study saying anything either way? I'm aware of a lot of anecdotal evidence in favor of e-ink displays being easier on the eyes than normal LCDs in some way, my own personal experience included, but I will happily admit I'm wrong if there are studies indicating otherwise. I like my Kindle and DIY e-ink weather display but I'm not religious about it. I wouldn't be shocked to find out it was just a weird placebo thing because it's different.
- luqtas 1y ago
  i don't think there are much but i made my research a decade ago after realizing i was having a good time with my smartphone compared to my e-reader [1] suggests that LCD even increases processing speed compared to e-ink [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22762257/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22762257/ [1] https://bop.unibe.ch/JEMR/article/view/2338/3534 https://bop.unibe.ch/JEMR/article/view/2338/3534 there's a study from Havard concluding "e-ink is 3 times better for eye health than LCD" but it feels rather dubious from the claims (blue light stressing more the retina... like i couldn't use a glass or apply a filter on my screen), light intensity (again...), in-vitro study and who funded the study (a great e-ink screen producer) -> https://sid.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.1191 https://sid.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.1191 i probably read hundred books since i sold my e-reader and moved to my smartphone. i really like having a single device. battery is fine. physical books with images still rocks but maybe becuse i don't have a tablet :)
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aerroon 1y ago
    I've spent thousands of hours (I think) reading on a phone. I even prefer it over a physical book because it doesn't have that annoying crease and it doesn't spoil the story by telling me how far along in the book I am.
    - broken-kebab 1y ago
      Well, not sure about your eyes, but you are certainly inviting neck problems, and carpal tunnel syndrome.
- wtallis 1y ago
  The problem is that there's not even a hypothesis for how light reflecting off an e-ink display could be easier on the eyes than light emitted from an LCD, unless the LCD is using PWM dimming of the backlight and thus flickering. I've never seen a claim that e-ink displays are easier on the eyes get further than the most obvious question: have you tried e-ink and LCD at the same brightness and similar color temperature?
  - ewoodrich 1y ago
    How would that comparison work using an e-ink display illuminated only with ambient light in the room? (i.e. setting the "frontlight" brightness to 0% on a Kindle, which would also eliminate color temperature control other than room ambient light). It does seem hard to believe that e-ink + a reflected frontlight would be any easier on the eyes than an LCD backlight (particularly since it's probably also using PWM). But an e-ink display on its own at least removes an additional light source pointing directly at the eyes, which could provide a potential mechanism for different effects on the eyes/brain.
    - bmicraft 1y ago
      > But an e-ink display on its own at least removes an additional light source pointing directly at the eyes, which could provide a potential mechanism for different effects on the eyes/brain. Not really, since LCD/OLED aren't an additional light source, but absorb and thus replace the ambient light that would be coming from their direction.
      - toyg 1y ago
        I don't know the science, but my experience is that my brain is simply able to process and retain information so much better with eInk than with LCD screens. I started as a teenager with cathodic tubes, which were killing my eyes and bringing daily headaches; moved on to LCDs which stopped the headaches but still tire my eyes significantly (some of them literally make me cry after a few minutes); and then found eInk and it's so much better, I will definitely move to that once prices of large color monitors at 60hz get into my price range. I honestly don't care about power draw one bit.
RossBencina 1y ago
You wait for the science then. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I can't use an LCD screen for more than 30 minutes without getting a headache. I use my e-ink screen all day without it triggering a headache.
- WaltPurvis 1y ago
  >I can't use an LCD screen for more than 30 minutes without getting a headache You're a software developer. How do you function? Do you spend pretty much your entire waking life with a headache?
  - porridgeraisin 1y ago
    I believe HN has a slightly wider demographic these days. Maybe we should have people fix a bug in some bash script everytime they log in :p
    - WaltPurvis 1y ago
      It is fair for you to think I assumed the poster was a software developer, but in fact I looked him up before I made my comment and that is how he makes a living. (Unless something has changed recently.) I am genuinely curious how people (he's not the only one I know of) with such high sensitivity to LCD screens manage a career where staring at such screens for prolonged periods is the norm.
  - RossBencina 1y ago
    Before I got the e-ink screen, yes, more or less. At the peak I did little screen-based development and a lot of pen-and-paper maths. I thought I would have to give programming away, and retrained for a different job. I got the e-ink screen 1 year ago and since then have slowly started developing again.
Maxion 1y ago
Go look at comparing reading books to screens. And all the studies looking at sleep quality and display usage.
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
There's no evidence/meta-analysis pointing milky and a warm blanket is cozier than water and a sleeping bag.

there's no evidence/meta-analysis pointing e-ink screen tiring eyes more/less than LCD

by luqtas 1y ago

there's no evidence/meta-analysis pointing e-ink screen tiring eyes more/less than LCD

Is there any actual scientific study saying anything either way? I'm aware of a lot of anecdotal evidence in favor of e-ink displays being easier on the eyes than normal LCDs in some way, my own personal experience included, but I will happily admit I'm wrong if there are studies indicating otherwise. I like my Kindle and DIY e-ink weather display but I'm not religious about it. I wouldn't be shocked to find out it was just a weird placebo thing because it's different.

luqtas 1y ago
i don't think there are much but i made my research a decade ago after realizing i was having a good time with my smartphone compared to my e-reader [1] suggests that LCD even increases processing speed compared to e-ink [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22762257/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22762257/ [1] https://bop.unibe.ch/JEMR/article/view/2338/3534 https://bop.unibe.ch/JEMR/article/view/2338/3534 there's a study from Havard concluding "e-ink is 3 times better for eye health than LCD" but it feels rather dubious from the claims (blue light stressing more the retina... like i couldn't use a glass or apply a filter on my screen), light intensity (again...), in-vitro study and who funded the study (a great e-ink screen producer) -> https://sid.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.1191 https://sid.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsid.1191 i probably read hundred books since i sold my e-reader and moved to my smartphone. i really like having a single device. battery is fine. physical books with images still rocks but maybe becuse i don't have a tablet :)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Aerroon 1y ago
  I've spent thousands of hours (I think) reading on a phone. I even prefer it over a physical book because it doesn't have that annoying crease and it doesn't spoil the story by telling me how far along in the book I am.
  - broken-kebab 1y ago
    Well, not sure about your eyes, but you are certainly inviting neck problems, and carpal tunnel syndrome.
wtallis 1y ago
The problem is that there's not even a hypothesis for how light reflecting off an e-ink display could be easier on the eyes than light emitted from an LCD, unless the LCD is using PWM dimming of the backlight and thus flickering. I've never seen a claim that e-ink displays are easier on the eyes get further than the most obvious question: have you tried e-ink and LCD at the same brightness and similar color temperature?
- ewoodrich 1y ago
  How would that comparison work using an e-ink display illuminated only with ambient light in the room? (i.e. setting the "frontlight" brightness to 0% on a Kindle, which would also eliminate color temperature control other than room ambient light). It does seem hard to believe that e-ink + a reflected frontlight would be any easier on the eyes than an LCD backlight (particularly since it's probably also using PWM). But an e-ink display on its own at least removes an additional light source pointing directly at the eyes, which could provide a potential mechanism for different effects on the eyes/brain.
  - bmicraft 1y ago
    > But an e-ink display on its own at least removes an additional light source pointing directly at the eyes, which could provide a potential mechanism for different effects on the eyes/brain. Not really, since LCD/OLED aren't an additional light source, but absorb and thus replace the ambient light that would be coming from their direction.
    - toyg 1y ago
      I don't know the science, but my experience is that my brain is simply able to process and retain information so much better with eInk than with LCD screens. I started as a teenager with cathodic tubes, which were killing my eyes and bringing daily headaches; moved on to LCDs which stopped the headaches but still tire my eyes significantly (some of them literally make me cry after a few minutes); and then found eInk and it's so much better, I will definitely move to that once prices of large color monitors at 60hz get into my price range. I honestly don't care about power draw one bit.

RossBencina 1y ago

You wait for the science then. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I can't use an LCD screen for more than 30 minutes without getting a headache. I use my e-ink screen all day without it triggering a headache.

WaltPurvis 1y ago
>I can't use an LCD screen for more than 30 minutes without getting a headache You're a software developer. How do you function? Do you spend pretty much your entire waking life with a headache?
- porridgeraisin 1y ago
  I believe HN has a slightly wider demographic these days. Maybe we should have people fix a bug in some bash script everytime they log in :p
  - WaltPurvis 1y ago
    It is fair for you to think I assumed the poster was a software developer, but in fact I looked him up before I made my comment and that is how he makes a living. (Unless something has changed recently.) I am genuinely curious how people (he's not the only one I know of) with such high sensitivity to LCD screens manage a career where staring at such screens for prolonged periods is the norm.
- RossBencina 1y ago
  Before I got the e-ink screen, yes, more or less. At the peak I did little screen-based development and a lot of pen-and-paper maths. I thought I would have to give programming away, and retrained for a different job. I got the e-ink screen 1 year ago and since then have slowly started developing again.

Maxion 1y ago

Go look at comparing reading books to screens. And all the studies looking at sleep quality and display usage.

MSFT_Edging 1y ago

There's no evidence/meta-analysis pointing milky and a warm blanket is cozier than water and a sleeping bag.