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Say you're a parent or teacher and see kids fighting. Do you investigate who started it every single time or do you just get fed up and tell them to stop fighti

Say you're a parent or teacher and see kids fighting. Do you investigate who started it every single time or do you just get fed up and tell them to stop fighting or you'll punish both? Incentivizing victims to behave in certain ways such as not fighting back makes it easier to determine victim and aggressor. I never said victims have power. Just that victimhood is encouraged from a young age. It used to be normal for kids to fight and for parents to teach them to always fight back, stand up for others, do not let injustice stand, etc. Oh and do not tell on others, nobody likes a rat. Now the message is to not fight or you might get hurt, tell an adult to resolve conflicts, everything you do might have consequences later so be careful about what you do or say. There are schools where if two kids fight, both get suspended. You're literally not allowed to defend yourself. I've seen a video of a girl getting beaten in the head while she was lying on her desk, waiting for it to be over. And you're right, victims have no power to influence those in positions of power. But victimhood is used as a weapon against those on the same level of power by making the "authorities" punish them for victimizing you. It works on multiple levels of severity. Online, if you're in a place which forbids swearing, you provoke others into swearing at you and they get punished - you used mods against them. At school, you make yourself cry and go tell the teacher what supposedly happened - you used the teachers against them. At work, you do pretty much the same thing, minus crying if you're a man. Using the legal system in this way is harder because unlike the previous places, it requires a certain level of proof which is harder to fabricate but false accusations do happen, not with the intent to be prosecuted but as a method of slander through a third party. Look how many men are afraid to make the first move because of the low-probability high-severity event that the woman sees it as harassment.

s1artibartfast 1y ago
I dont disagree that people are incentivized to express or misrepresent victimhood for advantage. What I disagree with is that "This means victimhood is the principal currency of power." It might be one of many local currencies on a playground, but it isn't why the teacher has more power than the student. It isn't a generalizable theory of power.
- martin-t 1y ago
  As long as the student doesn't record him saying something that could be understood as a sexual remark out of context and/or claim he patted her on the buttocks and a friend who never likes the teacher because of bad grades backs it up. You might think it's fat fetched but I recall a case where several teenagers conspired to accuse a youtuber of grooming them. --- Now, you're right about one thing. I overstated the effectiveness of victimhood in the original post. The principal currency of power is always violence because it overrides all other currencies if you have enough of it available to you. But for more pedestrian use-cases, other currencies are better. And victimhood is a very effective way to use other people's violence for your goals. It never gives true top-level power but it allows directing the levels of power above you against people on the same level as you. EDIT: And TBH, it works well to direct those on your level against those on your level too. For example, on the nation-state level, every action Ukraine takes in its fight against Russia has to be weighted against the possibility of being seen as too aggressive and not just purely defending itself.

s1artibartfast 1y ago

I dont disagree that people are incentivized to express or misrepresent victimhood for advantage. What I disagree with is that "This means victimhood is the principal currency of power." It might be one of many local currencies on a playground, but it isn't why the teacher has more power than the student. It isn't a generalizable theory of power.

martin-t 1y ago
As long as the student doesn't record him saying something that could be understood as a sexual remark out of context and/or claim he patted her on the buttocks and a friend who never likes the teacher because of bad grades backs it up. You might think it's fat fetched but I recall a case where several teenagers conspired to accuse a youtuber of grooming them. --- Now, you're right about one thing. I overstated the effectiveness of victimhood in the original post. The principal currency of power is always violence because it overrides all other currencies if you have enough of it available to you. But for more pedestrian use-cases, other currencies are better. And victimhood is a very effective way to use other people's violence for your goals. It never gives true top-level power but it allows directing the levels of power above you against people on the same level as you. EDIT: And TBH, it works well to direct those on your level against those on your level too. For example, on the nation-state level, every action Ukraine takes in its fight against Russia has to be weighted against the possibility of being seen as too aggressive and not just purely defending itself.