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>The steelman argument would be that we have provided a way for folks who felt excluded to now feel more represented. >And just repeating that yellow is abstra

by Levitz 1y ago

>The steelman argument would be that we have provided a way for folks who felt excluded to now feel more represented. >And just repeating that yellow is abstract and inclusive doesn't address the fact that it's objectively far closer to representing people of lighter complexion than those with significantly darker complexion. They also represent those of thinner complexion. Overwhelmingly able-bodied too. Not to mention, it was always going to be the case since facial features are going to be dark tones and as such, it's clearer to represent them on a clear skin. This was always a nonsensical, losing game. Always has been. I don't feel represented on the basis of branding personal expression with an identification of race as a default, the idea is frankly abhorrent to me. Why am I being excluded?

paulryanrogers 1y ago
> I don't feel represented on the basis of branding personal expression with an identification of race as a default, the idea is frankly abhorrent to me. Why am I being excluded? Is anyone forcing you to use a default? How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? Maybe being disgusted by others choices for casual conversation is a personal matter. Something you could address with software to disregard whatever is so offensive, or a support group, or inward reflection.
- Levitz 1y ago
  >Is anyone forcing you to use a default? Why don't you levy this argument against yourself? >How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? Because I cannot. By your own points, I can't express myself in a race-neutral way anymore. >Maybe being disgusted by others choices for casual conversation is a personal matter. Something you could address with software to disregard whatever is so offensive, or a support group, or inward reflection. This is, again, better levied against your position.
  - paulryanrogers 1y ago
    >>Is anyone forcing you to use a default? > Why don't you levy this argument against yourself? How? I don't feel forced by others having options or even the existence of a default. >> Maybe being disgusted by others choices... > This is, again, better levied against your position. I'm not the one whose disgusted or even bothered. Not even by your opinion. (I just don't share it.) >> How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? > Because I cannot. By your own points, I can't express myself in a race-neutral way anymore. Thanks for clarifying. IMO you can just accept the defaults, whatever their tone/complexion, and move on. I don't think anyone is bothered by yellow being an imperfect attempt at race neutrality, so long as there are options for folks to pick whatever they're comfortable with.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      > I don't think anyone is bothered by yellow being an imperfect attempt at race neutrality The sheer length of the discussion suggests otherwise.
      - paulryanrogers 1y ago
        Is 5 comments really that deep? IMO it only suggests that misunderstandings and disagreements take a while to sort out in a text mediums. Debate doesn't mean people are out to get you.

by Levitz 1y ago

paulryanrogers 1y ago

> I don't feel represented on the basis of branding personal expression with an identification of race as a default, the idea is frankly abhorrent to me. Why am I being excluded? Is anyone forcing you to use a default? How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? Maybe being disgusted by others choices for casual conversation is a personal matter. Something you could address with software to disregard whatever is so offensive, or a support group, or inward reflection.

Levitz 1y ago
>Is anyone forcing you to use a default? Why don't you levy this argument against yourself? >How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? Because I cannot. By your own points, I can't express myself in a race-neutral way anymore. >Maybe being disgusted by others choices for casual conversation is a personal matter. Something you could address with software to disregard whatever is so offensive, or a support group, or inward reflection. This is, again, better levied against your position.
- paulryanrogers 1y ago
  >>Is anyone forcing you to use a default? > Why don't you levy this argument against yourself? How? I don't feel forced by others having options or even the existence of a default. >> Maybe being disgusted by others choices... > This is, again, better levied against your position. I'm not the one whose disgusted or even bothered. Not even by your opinion. (I just don't share it.) >> How are you excluded because other people can make different choices? > Because I cannot. By your own points, I can't express myself in a race-neutral way anymore. Thanks for clarifying. IMO you can just accept the defaults, whatever their tone/complexion, and move on. I don't think anyone is bothered by yellow being an imperfect attempt at race neutrality, so long as there are options for folks to pick whatever they're comfortable with.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    > I don't think anyone is bothered by yellow being an imperfect attempt at race neutrality The sheer length of the discussion suggests otherwise.
    - paulryanrogers 1y ago
      Is 5 comments really that deep? IMO it only suggests that misunderstandings and disagreements take a while to sort out in a text mediums. Debate doesn't mean people are out to get you.