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With EU chat control, the state will be on my device, having access to everything they want, decide what I can and cannot do. Once Google forces WEI on us, the

With EU chat control, the state will be on my device, having access to everything they want, decide what I can and cannot do. Once Google forces WEI on us, the whole web will get locked down. And secure boot and now MIE will make sure we can never take back our freedom.

spaceribs 1y ago
That is, unless we balkanize our systems and services.
- ysofunny 1y ago
  > That is, unless we balkanize our systems and services. ...all the way back to pen and paper
  - spaceribs 1y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised for certain kinds of secret sharing. Storage is cheap and sneaker-nets are easy. I'm sure someone is figuring out a network solution where 2 computers both have a 100tb hard drive with the same one-time pad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
aloha2436 1y ago
> MIE will make sure we can never take back our freedom. Is the implication here that making phones more secure is... bad? Because it makes jailbreaks harder to develop?
- duskwuff 1y ago
  I think it is. I've seen similar rhetoric from a few people in this thread, and it's extraordinarily silly. Apple is not developing this technology to make it harder to install torrent apps*; there's real problems they're trying to solve. *: or whatever else people use jailbreaks for these days
- userbinator 1y ago
  Yes, absolutely. Just like any weapon, "security" is only good if it's in your control. When the noose is around your neck, you'd better hope it easily breaks.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    That is a good way to put it, stealing it.
- kevincox 1y ago
  Yeah, this is weird logic to me. If you want control of your computing don't buy Apple hardware and hope to find an exploit. But hardware that supports running your own software without fighting you.
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    > Buy hardware that supports running your own software without fighting you. It will be very hard to buy something that won't exist in the near future. This rhetoric should've died a decade ago.
    - kevincox 1y ago
      Maybe, but it exists now. Maybe if more people demanded this hardware then it would be more popular and not at risk of extinction. I don't know what rhetoric you are taking about? Recommending buying stuff that supports your wishes seems like pretty reasonable advice.
      - dns_snek 1y ago
        > I don't know what rhetoric you are taking about. The rhetoric of blaming consumers for buying the wrong product when they complain about hostile features on Apple's side of the duopoly, and then blaming them again when they switch to Android and complain about hostile features on that side. The rhetoric of blaming the consumers for simply "not demanding" what we want with enough conviction. It's an asinine thing to suggest because freedom to install and customize has been the headline feature of Android since day 1, but they're killing it anyway because the duopoly doesn't give a shit about what we want. They know that they can make more money and they know that we don't have a choice. > Recommending buying stuff that supports your wishes seems like pretty reasonable advice. No, not when the market is a well-known abusive duopoly. That's either ignorant of the reality or just gaslighting.
        kevincox 1y ago
        Fair point. I think in general it is important to remember that. There are negatives to each corner of the market so a consumer can't make a perfect choice. But in this specific case I think it does still seem strange to raise a concern that one of the most notorious locked down vendors is shipping a security improvement because it also makes it harder to get full device access. Maybe a better way of phrasing my point is that the problem isn't that these devices are secure, that is a good feature. The problem is that Apple doesn't let you control the device. I would focus my complaints on the latter, not complain about every security improvement because it also happens to contribute to the real problem.
elcritch 1y ago
What is WEI?
- ls612 1y ago
  Google proposed it as DRM for web pages in 2023. After much outcry it was unceremoniously withdrawn.

spaceribs 1y ago

That is, unless we balkanize our systems and services.

ysofunny 1y ago
> That is, unless we balkanize our systems and services. ...all the way back to pen and paper
- spaceribs 1y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised for certain kinds of secret sharing. Storage is cheap and sneaker-nets are easy. I'm sure someone is figuring out a network solution where 2 computers both have a 100tb hard drive with the same one-time pad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

aloha2436 1y ago

> MIE will make sure we can never take back our freedom. Is the implication here that making phones more secure is... bad? Because it makes jailbreaks harder to develop?

duskwuff 1y ago
I think it is. I've seen similar rhetoric from a few people in this thread, and it's extraordinarily silly. Apple is not developing this technology to make it harder to install torrent apps*; there's real problems they're trying to solve. *: or whatever else people use jailbreaks for these days
userbinator 1y ago
Yes, absolutely. Just like any weapon, "security" is only good if it's in your control. When the noose is around your neck, you'd better hope it easily breaks.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  That is a good way to put it, stealing it.
kevincox 1y ago
Yeah, this is weird logic to me. If you want control of your computing don't buy Apple hardware and hope to find an exploit. But hardware that supports running your own software without fighting you.
- dns_snek 1y ago
  > Buy hardware that supports running your own software without fighting you. It will be very hard to buy something that won't exist in the near future. This rhetoric should've died a decade ago.
  - kevincox 1y ago
    Maybe, but it exists now. Maybe if more people demanded this hardware then it would be more popular and not at risk of extinction. I don't know what rhetoric you are taking about? Recommending buying stuff that supports your wishes seems like pretty reasonable advice.
    - dns_snek 1y ago
      > I don't know what rhetoric you are taking about. The rhetoric of blaming consumers for buying the wrong product when they complain about hostile features on Apple's side of the duopoly, and then blaming them again when they switch to Android and complain about hostile features on that side. The rhetoric of blaming the consumers for simply "not demanding" what we want with enough conviction. It's an asinine thing to suggest because freedom to install and customize has been the headline feature of Android since day 1, but they're killing it anyway because the duopoly doesn't give a shit about what we want. They know that they can make more money and they know that we don't have a choice. > Recommending buying stuff that supports your wishes seems like pretty reasonable advice. No, not when the market is a well-known abusive duopoly. That's either ignorant of the reality or just gaslighting.
      - kevincox 1y ago
        Fair point. I think in general it is important to remember that. There are negatives to each corner of the market so a consumer can't make a perfect choice. But in this specific case I think it does still seem strange to raise a concern that one of the most notorious locked down vendors is shipping a security improvement because it also makes it harder to get full device access. Maybe a better way of phrasing my point is that the problem isn't that these devices are secure, that is a good feature. The problem is that Apple doesn't let you control the device. I would focus my complaints on the latter, not complain about every security improvement because it also happens to contribute to the real problem.

elcritch 1y ago

What is WEI?

ls612 1y ago
Google proposed it as DRM for web pages in 2023. After much outcry it was unceremoniously withdrawn.