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Do e-ink screens expire? Like screen slowly loose the ability to move the particles around, or the particles loosing the ability to move with charge. If so, wo

Do e-ink screens expire? Like screen slowly loose the ability to move the particles around, or the particles loosing the ability to move with charge. If so, won't high refresh rates degrade eink rapidly.

bebna 1y ago
Yes you can kill or degrade them if you drive them too hard, but achieving higher refresh rates and less ghosting is mostly about finer calibration and faster lookups on bigger tables
alex-a-soto 1y ago
I’d recommend watching the video below, where we talk about how fast refresh affects a panel’s lifespan. https://www.youtube.com/live/okjJURIejIY?feature=shared&t=2491 https://www.youtube.com/live/okjJURIejIY?feature=shared&t=24...
- fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
  For dynamic content, a higher refresh rate absolutely will lower an eink panel's lifespan. As the refresh rate increases, more of the underlying content's changes will be captured and more pixels will change state.
Modified3019 1y ago
In the DIY electronics scene, I’ve occasionally come across posts about small cheap e-ink displays essentially burning in and how to try and avoid it (shifting things around like on OLED) https://github.com/esphome/feature-requests/issues/1109#issuecomment-2629029382 https://github.com/esphome/feature-requests/issues/1109#issu... This could be actual burn in, or it could be a failure in how they are refreshing (with some potential fix if refreshed properly). I’m not familiar enough to be certain myself, but I personally suspect they are likely being driven too hard and are truly damaged. In normal e-reader use I’ve never seen this as a practical issue.
cyberax 1y ago
I have an e-ink display that's now 15 years old. It's definitely a bit less clean, there is sometimes mild ghosting even after doing a full refresh. Doing two refreshes in quick succession fixes that. I also have another display that was exposed to full sunlight through a window for about 8 years. It's now a bit faded as a result. All in all, I consider it pretty good.
mrheosuper 1y ago
Kind of, many e-ink device when using under sunlight lose their contrast overtime. The Fossil Eink watch is one of the example.
- fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
  That's a separate effect - eink degrades under UV. Fossil eink watches did not have enough UV filtering.
fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
Waveshare specify 1 million switches per eink dot for their panels. https://files.waveshare.com/upload/4/4e/2.13inch_e-Paper_V4_Specification.pdf https://files.waveshare.com/upload/4/4e/2.13inch_e-Paper_V4_... https://files.waveshare.com/upload/6/60/7.5inch_e-Paper_V2_Specification.pdf https://files.waveshare.com/upload/6/60/7.5inch_e-Paper_V2_S...
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  1 million switches for a pixel is about 5.5 hours at 50 Hz, assuming the worst case of a state change on every frame. Surely it can't be that bad for larger panels? The existing e-ink monitors from Dasung and Onyx would have had problems by now.
  - fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
    I imagine most people are using those monitors for text-based applications, which have a much lower rate of pixel change. Still - the pixel switch lifetime is currently a limitiation of eink.

bebna 1y ago

Yes you can kill or degrade them if you drive them too hard, but achieving higher refresh rates and less ghosting is mostly about finer calibration and faster lookups on bigger tables

alex-a-soto 1y ago

I’d recommend watching the video below, where we talk about how fast refresh affects a panel’s lifespan. https://www.youtube.com/live/okjJURIejIY?feature=shared&t=2491 https://www.youtube.com/live/okjJURIejIY?feature=shared&t=24...

fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
For dynamic content, a higher refresh rate absolutely will lower an eink panel's lifespan. As the refresh rate increases, more of the underlying content's changes will be captured and more pixels will change state.

Modified3019 1y ago

In the DIY electronics scene, I’ve occasionally come across posts about small cheap e-ink displays essentially burning in and how to try and avoid it (shifting things around like on OLED) https://github.com/esphome/feature-requests/issues/1109#issuecomment-2629029382 https://github.com/esphome/feature-requests/issues/1109#issu... This could be actual burn in, or it could be a failure in how they are refreshing (with some potential fix if refreshed properly). I’m not familiar enough to be certain myself, but I personally suspect they are likely being driven too hard and are truly damaged. In normal e-reader use I’ve never seen this as a practical issue.

cyberax 1y ago

I have an e-ink display that's now 15 years old. It's definitely a bit less clean, there is sometimes mild ghosting even after doing a full refresh. Doing two refreshes in quick succession fixes that. I also have another display that was exposed to full sunlight through a window for about 8 years. It's now a bit faded as a result. All in all, I consider it pretty good.

mrheosuper 1y ago

Kind of, many e-ink device when using under sunlight lose their contrast overtime. The Fossil Eink watch is one of the example.

fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
That's a separate effect - eink degrades under UV. Fossil eink watches did not have enough UV filtering.

fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago

Waveshare specify 1 million switches per eink dot for their panels. https://files.waveshare.com/upload/4/4e/2.13inch_e-Paper_V4_Specification.pdf https://files.waveshare.com/upload/4/4e/2.13inch_e-Paper_V4_... https://files.waveshare.com/upload/6/60/7.5inch_e-Paper_V2_Specification.pdf https://files.waveshare.com/upload/6/60/7.5inch_e-Paper_V2_S...

ThrowawayR2 1y ago
1 million switches for a pixel is about 5.5 hours at 50 Hz, assuming the worst case of a state change on every frame. Surely it can't be that bad for larger panels? The existing e-ink monitors from Dasung and Onyx would have had problems by now.
- fdsfdsfdsaasd 1y ago
  I imagine most people are using those monitors for text-based applications, which have a much lower rate of pixel change. Still - the pixel switch lifetime is currently a limitiation of eink.