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In what way was the energiewwende disastrous, give actual numbers. German electricity production is increasingly dominated by renewables, in the first quarter

In what way was the energiewwende disastrous, give actual numbers. German electricity production is increasingly dominated by renewables, in the first quarter of 2025 (which had unfavourable weather conditions) 46.9% of electricity was produced by renewables (mostly wind). Coal and gas has been declining steadily and Germany regularly exports electricity to nuclear focused France. Currently on average Germany is a net importer from France, but that does mean little because of the way cross border trade is an integral part of the European grid (note that Germany also is a net importer from Denmark whos grid is largely wind based). So to me that sounds like a success story.

hollerith 1y ago
The cost of electricity is very high or at least it was during the latest period for which I have data, namely the second half of 2023: 45.65 US cents per kilowatt-hour for households in Germany compared to 16.06 US cents per kilowatt-hour for US households.
- ViewTrick1002 1y ago
  Which mostly comes from very high taxes to promote efficiency gains. The interesting question is: What is the wholesale cost + subsidies? Subsidies which now are being phased out for new production, or in some cases even lead to companies having to bid to get the privilege to build.
- k_g_b_ 1y ago
  End consumer prices are utterly unusable to determine success or failure of the Energiewende. They are also utterly useless to compare across nations, as they are made up of very different components - e.g. in Germany only 40% is determined by market factors, in France the price is held artificially low by massive subsidies https://www.lemonde.fr/en/energies/article/2023/04/21/france-to-continue-subsidizing-electricity-bills-until-2025_6023740_98.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/energies/article/2023/04/21/france... and so on.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    I don't understand "in Germany only 40% is determined by market factors". Do you mean that 60% of the price consists of taxes?
    - k_g_b_ 1y ago
      All kinds of fees (e.g. for the grid) and taxes, yes. It differs by year and depending on which surcharges were added/removed through laws. E.g. one part was for renewable subsidies and that's been removed in '22. 40% source is here (German, slide 7) https://www.bdew.de/media/documents/BDEW_Strompreisanalyse_072025_1.pdf https://www.bdew.de/media/documents/BDEW_Strompreisanalyse_0... Consumer prices are now down to below 0.30 €/kwh again for new contracts (takes a few clicks for anyone) - they were mostly high previously because of Russia's war. This influence on electricity production was removed.
  - seec 1y ago
    50% of the price in France is also taxes and network maintenance fees so your argument does not make sense. The retail price is so high because it is a failure of both technology and politics. The taxes are that high because politically they decided to over-invest in a bad technological choice; pretending otherwise is an extremely bad faith argument.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      During the second half of 2023, the average price of electricity for residences in France was about 0.273 US dollars per kWh.

hollerith 1y ago

The cost of electricity is very high or at least it was during the latest period for which I have data, namely the second half of 2023: 45.65 US cents per kilowatt-hour for households in Germany compared to 16.06 US cents per kilowatt-hour for US households.

ViewTrick1002 1y ago
Which mostly comes from very high taxes to promote efficiency gains. The interesting question is: What is the wholesale cost + subsidies? Subsidies which now are being phased out for new production, or in some cases even lead to companies having to bid to get the privilege to build.
k_g_b_ 1y ago
End consumer prices are utterly unusable to determine success or failure of the Energiewende. They are also utterly useless to compare across nations, as they are made up of very different components - e.g. in Germany only 40% is determined by market factors, in France the price is held artificially low by massive subsidies https://www.lemonde.fr/en/energies/article/2023/04/21/france-to-continue-subsidizing-electricity-bills-until-2025_6023740_98.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/energies/article/2023/04/21/france... and so on.
- hollerith 1y ago
  I don't understand "in Germany only 40% is determined by market factors". Do you mean that 60% of the price consists of taxes?
  - k_g_b_ 1y ago
    All kinds of fees (e.g. for the grid) and taxes, yes. It differs by year and depending on which surcharges were added/removed through laws. E.g. one part was for renewable subsidies and that's been removed in '22. 40% source is here (German, slide 7) https://www.bdew.de/media/documents/BDEW_Strompreisanalyse_072025_1.pdf https://www.bdew.de/media/documents/BDEW_Strompreisanalyse_0... Consumer prices are now down to below 0.30 €/kwh again for new contracts (takes a few clicks for anyone) - they were mostly high previously because of Russia's war. This influence on electricity production was removed.
- seec 1y ago
  50% of the price in France is also taxes and network maintenance fees so your argument does not make sense. The retail price is so high because it is a failure of both technology and politics. The taxes are that high because politically they decided to over-invest in a bad technological choice; pretending otherwise is an extremely bad faith argument.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    During the second half of 2023, the average price of electricity for residences in France was about 0.273 US dollars per kWh.