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> It's the sequel to a game (Hollow Knight) which is widely regarded as one of the best of all time. I would say this is overstating it a bit. Hollow Knight wa

by OskarS 1y ago

> It's the sequel to a game (Hollow Knight) which is widely regarded as one of the best of all time. I would say this is overstating it a bit. Hollow Knight was critically lauded, grew an intense fan-base, and often considered one of the best in its genre (the awkwardly named group of "metroidvanias"), but it's a bit much to say that it has the reputation of "one of the best of all time". It's not, like, Tetris or Super Mario World. Also, and this is just my personal opinion, but I'm about a dozen hours into it, and so far I haven't found it THAT much harder than the original. Maybe it's because I've played Hollow Knight and gotten used to the controls by now, but I remember struggling a lot with lots of parts of Hollow Knight, about as much as I'm struggling with Silksong. Enough people have been saying it so I suspect I might just be misremembering. Excellent game in general, by the way, really enjoying Silksong so far.

mjr00 1y ago
> I would say this is overstating it a bit. Hollow Knight was critically lauded, grew an intense fan-base, and often considered one of the best in it's genre (the awkwardly named group of "metrovanias"), but it's a bit much to say that it has the reputation of "one of the best of all time". It's not, like, Tetris or Super Mario World. You are welcome to your opinion, but it is literally on a Wikipedia page called "List of video games considered the best."[0] There's no definitive list, of course, but broad consensus is it is one of the best of all time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered...
- corimaith 1y ago
  Hollow Knight was released when a greater portion of the mainstream was going into gaming so that was one of their first encounters of a "great game" hence the rave reviews. It's recency bias clouded by initial unfamiliarity of a genre's appeal that is misconstrued as a sole game's features. If you ask people who more acquainted with metroidvanias it's not going to be topping their lists.
  - mjr00 1y ago
    What Metroidvanias do you think are better? I've played a ton of Metroidvanias and I completely disagree. Hollow Knight has excellent combat and arguably the best map layout in any Metroidvania. The only Metroidvanias I consider its peers are Super Metroid and Rabi-Ribi.
    - rimunroe 1y ago
      Not the person you're replying to, but I personally preferred Ori and the Blind Forest a lot, both in terms of movement and story, but also in terms of the satisfaction of the backtracking and world as a whole. I felt like Hollow Knight did a poor job of nudging players in the right direction, and found the combat to be a bit more finicky than I care for from the genre. I'm not a huge fan of the art style either, at least as far as the environments are concerned. The satisfaction of feeling your set of abilities and options for gameplay increase and grant the ability to overcome previous obstacles is the main thing I expect and want from a Metroidvania. I felt like this was Hollow Knight's biggest weak point. It just didn't feel like you gained new abilities at as steady a pace or as though they opened up enough of the world each time compared to other games in the genre, including Ori and the Blind Forest. I think Super Metroid still has the best progression among Metroidvanias, but it's possible that's colored by my having first played it at a young age.
      - vunderba 1y ago
        I was just gonna say this was one of the most annoying parts to the original hollow night - the environments kind of blurred together after a little while, and I found myself backtracking more than I would've liked.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - vunderba 1y ago
      While I wouldn't necessarily consider it better, the sequel to "Ori and the Blind Forest", "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" is easily on the same level as Hollow Knight.
- OskarS 1y ago
  I mean, fair enough I guess, but there's a lot of games on that list. I don't think you would go around saying "LittleBigPlanet is widely regarded as one of the best of all time" just because it appears in that article. A lot of publications has done click-baity "top 100 games of all time".
- rimunroe 1y ago
  > You are welcome to your opinion, but it is literally on a Wikipedia page called "List of video games considered the best."[0] There's no definitive list, of course, but broad consensus is it is one of the best of all time. To the degree that such a concept is even measurable in the first place, I don't think pointing at a Wikipedia list of what looks like around a hundred games over forty-ish years as definitive proof that something is widely considered to be among the best games of all time. My guess is that most people think of categories of "best" media in much much smaller terms, and the only people allowing so many things in their categories are people like the American Film Institute and other people who like making lists. It's hard to judge games which came out relatively recently against all the games which came before. I also think there's an abnormal level of hype around Hollow Knight. It's an excellent game which was received well, but I think on the grand scale of games I would be quite surprised if it cracked the top fifteen of most critics' choices of best games of the past decade. Within the Metroidvania genre I'd expect it to be a very different story.
  - mjr00 1y ago
    You are welcome to your opinion. If you don't like Hollow Knight, that's fine. I was just pointing to proof that it is widely regarded, by most (but not all) people, as one of the best video games of all time, hence why the sequel got so much hype.
    - rimunroe 1y ago
      > I was just pointing to proof that it is widely regarded, by most (but not all) people, as one of the best video games of all time, hence why the sequel got so much hype. My point is exactly that I don't think most people think of things being "the best" in terms of lists that large, even most people who review things for a living. I'd be fine if you used that list as support for most people considering it to be one of the best games the year it was released though. > You are welcome to your opinion. For what it's worth I quite liked Hollow Knight. I put a bit over 30 hours into it, and plan on revisiting it soon. It's a very good game, maybe even excellent, but there are a lot of excellent games out there.
michaelsbradley 1y ago
“metroidvania”, not “metro”
- OskarS 1y ago
  Corrected, thanks.

by OskarS 1y ago

mjr00 1y ago

> I would say this is overstating it a bit. Hollow Knight was critically lauded, grew an intense fan-base, and often considered one of the best in it's genre (the awkwardly named group of "metrovanias"), but it's a bit much to say that it has the reputation of "one of the best of all time". It's not, like, Tetris or Super Mario World. You are welcome to your opinion, but it is literally on a Wikipedia page called "List of video games considered the best."[0] There's no definitive list, of course, but broad consensus is it is one of the best of all time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered...

corimaith 1y ago
Hollow Knight was released when a greater portion of the mainstream was going into gaming so that was one of their first encounters of a "great game" hence the rave reviews. It's recency bias clouded by initial unfamiliarity of a genre's appeal that is misconstrued as a sole game's features. If you ask people who more acquainted with metroidvanias it's not going to be topping their lists.
- mjr00 1y ago
  What Metroidvanias do you think are better? I've played a ton of Metroidvanias and I completely disagree. Hollow Knight has excellent combat and arguably the best map layout in any Metroidvania. The only Metroidvanias I consider its peers are Super Metroid and Rabi-Ribi.
  - rimunroe 1y ago
    Not the person you're replying to, but I personally preferred Ori and the Blind Forest a lot, both in terms of movement and story, but also in terms of the satisfaction of the backtracking and world as a whole. I felt like Hollow Knight did a poor job of nudging players in the right direction, and found the combat to be a bit more finicky than I care for from the genre. I'm not a huge fan of the art style either, at least as far as the environments are concerned. The satisfaction of feeling your set of abilities and options for gameplay increase and grant the ability to overcome previous obstacles is the main thing I expect and want from a Metroidvania. I felt like this was Hollow Knight's biggest weak point. It just didn't feel like you gained new abilities at as steady a pace or as though they opened up enough of the world each time compared to other games in the genre, including Ori and the Blind Forest. I think Super Metroid still has the best progression among Metroidvanias, but it's possible that's colored by my having first played it at a young age.
    - vunderba 1y ago
      I was just gonna say this was one of the most annoying parts to the original hollow night - the environments kind of blurred together after a little while, and I found myself backtracking more than I would've liked.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - vunderba 1y ago
    While I wouldn't necessarily consider it better, the sequel to "Ori and the Blind Forest", "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" is easily on the same level as Hollow Knight.
OskarS 1y ago
I mean, fair enough I guess, but there's a lot of games on that list. I don't think you would go around saying "LittleBigPlanet is widely regarded as one of the best of all time" just because it appears in that article. A lot of publications has done click-baity "top 100 games of all time".
rimunroe 1y ago
> You are welcome to your opinion, but it is literally on a Wikipedia page called "List of video games considered the best."[0] There's no definitive list, of course, but broad consensus is it is one of the best of all time. To the degree that such a concept is even measurable in the first place, I don't think pointing at a Wikipedia list of what looks like around a hundred games over forty-ish years as definitive proof that something is widely considered to be among the best games of all time. My guess is that most people think of categories of "best" media in much much smaller terms, and the only people allowing so many things in their categories are people like the American Film Institute and other people who like making lists. It's hard to judge games which came out relatively recently against all the games which came before. I also think there's an abnormal level of hype around Hollow Knight. It's an excellent game which was received well, but I think on the grand scale of games I would be quite surprised if it cracked the top fifteen of most critics' choices of best games of the past decade. Within the Metroidvania genre I'd expect it to be a very different story.
- mjr00 1y ago
  You are welcome to your opinion. If you don't like Hollow Knight, that's fine. I was just pointing to proof that it is widely regarded, by most (but not all) people, as one of the best video games of all time, hence why the sequel got so much hype.
  - rimunroe 1y ago
    > I was just pointing to proof that it is widely regarded, by most (but not all) people, as one of the best video games of all time, hence why the sequel got so much hype. My point is exactly that I don't think most people think of things being "the best" in terms of lists that large, even most people who review things for a living. I'd be fine if you used that list as support for most people considering it to be one of the best games the year it was released though. > You are welcome to your opinion. For what it's worth I quite liked Hollow Knight. I put a bit over 30 hours into it, and plan on revisiting it soon. It's a very good game, maybe even excellent, but there are a lot of excellent games out there.

michaelsbradley 1y ago

“metroidvania”, not “metro”

OskarS 1y ago
Corrected, thanks.