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They think things will go back to normal. Once/if they do, they think (probably correctly) that the "normal" rulers will reward those who deferred to the crown

They think things will go back to normal. Once/if they do, they think (probably correctly) that the "normal" rulers will reward those who deferred to the crown despite disliking the one who wore it. That's the essence of normalcy to them. They cannot imagine any alternative to the US foreign department dictated world order - or they just don't want to imagine it. They rose in a system where imagination in foreign policy matters -- well, if they had it, they wouldn't have risen to the top in this system. The height of irresponsibility to them is to imagine something outside the present order (such as Varoufakis making practical plans for leaving the Euro during the Greek debt crisis). The very action of imagining things threatens the stability which is the base of everything they actually value, which is little more than peer prestige and comfort for themselves.

bilekas 1y ago
Wow there is a lot to unpack here.. Firstly don't speak as if 'they' in some absolute consensus please, in the EU we are nothing if opinionated about our own interests, hence the amount of bureaucracy and the length of time it takes to enact certain things. > They cannot imagine any alternative to the US foreign department dictated world order - or they just don't want to imagine it. Dictated or not, you're missing the main point that we are 'aligned'. Why would we not embrace an open and free market. That's what works for the EU itself and so when a world leader also shared the same policies, naturally we would embrace that and vice versa. It's not some dictator sitting in the US, a good example of this are how many products are not allowed to be sold in the EU from the US due to health risks we asses as unacceptable. We decide that, free market. > The height of irresponsibility to them is to imagine something outside the present order (such as Varoufakis making practical plans for leaving the Euro during the Greek debt crisis) Again you are assuming that mitigations and considerations haven't been considered, there are MANY provisions for leaving the EU, but why would we focus primarily on those situations when we as a union have a parliment to come together and work together. That is always the priority. We don't have one overarching federal system. We have a collection trading block who internally are independant and externally we can negotiate trade deals as one union, meaning better deals. That's it. > The very action of imagining things threatens the stability which is the base of everything they actually value, which is little more than peer prestige and comfort for themselves. This makes no sense and it's purely conjecture. Is the EU perfect, no, does anyone think it is, nope. Is it constantly in flux to improve, absolutely.
- vintermann 1y ago
  Sure, it's how I see them. My view of them has been pretty good for me personally, for predicting what they're going to do, though. I'm sure they have considered a very limited number of mitigations, but nothing radical. But they always end up with the default choice. Do you disagree? If so, tell me when they did something the slightest bit imaginative or radical, or even surprising. I don't think you even disagree with me, you just think it's good that they don't. > Why would we not embrace an open and free market. Because it's not actually on the table when dealing with Trump?

bilekas 1y ago

Wow there is a lot to unpack here.. Firstly don't speak as if 'they' in some absolute consensus please, in the EU we are nothing if opinionated about our own interests, hence the amount of bureaucracy and the length of time it takes to enact certain things. > They cannot imagine any alternative to the US foreign department dictated world order - or they just don't want to imagine it. Dictated or not, you're missing the main point that we are 'aligned'. Why would we not embrace an open and free market. That's what works for the EU itself and so when a world leader also shared the same policies, naturally we would embrace that and vice versa. It's not some dictator sitting in the US, a good example of this are how many products are not allowed to be sold in the EU from the US due to health risks we asses as unacceptable. We decide that, free market. > The height of irresponsibility to them is to imagine something outside the present order (such as Varoufakis making practical plans for leaving the Euro during the Greek debt crisis) Again you are assuming that mitigations and considerations haven't been considered, there are MANY provisions for leaving the EU, but why would we focus primarily on those situations when we as a union have a parliment to come together and work together. That is always the priority. We don't have one overarching federal system. We have a collection trading block who internally are independant and externally we can negotiate trade deals as one union, meaning better deals. That's it. > The very action of imagining things threatens the stability which is the base of everything they actually value, which is little more than peer prestige and comfort for themselves. This makes no sense and it's purely conjecture. Is the EU perfect, no, does anyone think it is, nope. Is it constantly in flux to improve, absolutely.

vintermann 1y ago
Sure, it's how I see them. My view of them has been pretty good for me personally, for predicting what they're going to do, though. I'm sure they have considered a very limited number of mitigations, but nothing radical. But they always end up with the default choice. Do you disagree? If so, tell me when they did something the slightest bit imaginative or radical, or even surprising. I don't think you even disagree with me, you just think it's good that they don't. > Why would we not embrace an open and free market. Because it's not actually on the table when dealing with Trump?