4 ms·

It might be less beneficial than the previous position, but nonetheless more beneficial than the alternative. If the deal was the best available then its not "

It might be less beneficial than the previous position, but nonetheless more beneficial than the alternative. If the deal was the best available then its not "selling out", its being realistic.

lilwobbles 1y ago
Trump has backed down on most of the outrageous tariffs (200% tarriff on China). The alternative was a false reality that the EU believed because they are scared of Trump and bad at negotiating. I'm glad the American people at least know how weak the EU is, we should elect someone next time that will bring those tariffs up to 100%, and the EU will have to take it because it's better than a 200% tariff alternative. That's just being realistic, right?
- rsynnott 1y ago
  This is a rather confused view of the situation. 30% tariffs on EU imports would be very bad for _the US_. Trump tends to present trade as a zero sum game, but it very much isn’t; outside of limited scenarios (generally developing countries protecting otherwise unviable local industry with targeted tariffs), tariffs generally hurt both sides.
  - graemep 1y ago
    Trump may present trade imbalances as a zero sum game, I am pretty sure he does not believe it. The real thinking is that being a net importer gives you more negotiating power so you can use that to get a better deal. its well worth looking at what people like Miran and Bessent said (before they were in government) to see what is driving all this.
- graemep 1y ago
  As far as I know (am I mistaken?) the US reduced tariffs to 10% in return for China reducing tariffs to 10%, and reducing restrictions on the exports of rare earths. That sounds more like China backed down than the US did. The EU is a lot weaker than China. China dominates critical areas of manufacturing, and does not have the level of dependence Europe (non-EU as well) has on the US - I hardly need remind people here of the dependence in IT systems.
  - stubish 1y ago
    China put retaliatory tariffs in place and placed restrictions on the exports of rare earths, calling the US bluff and forcing them to negotiate down to where things stand today.
- Phelinofist 1y ago
  Man, you are really butthurt about the EU, see also your comment on the Mistral/ASML post
nwellnhof 1y ago
That's what Europeans tell themselves, but showing weakness just sets them up for more humiliation.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
  I see no benefit in ginning up tensions for myself, but I accept that there are power centers that do benefit from it. In a very practical sense, having a slightly less bad situation is better than a bad one. I could offer a real life anecdote, but I am not certain where you are going with this conversation.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    See https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_danegeld.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_danegeld.htm Trump is "making deals" by making the other option worse. But the problem is, if you take the current best option, that may not be the deal for long. He may do it again... and again... "I am altering the deal. Pray that I do not alter it further." When dealing with someone like this, don't play the game the first time.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
      I don't disagree. It is a reasonable and forward looking consideration. That said, it may be a little late to do that. Not to mention, for all the talk about how Americans being unable to handle hardship, higher prices and whatnot.. I am reasonably certain that this extends to most of the '1st world'.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- mensetmanusman 1y ago
  This is good, once you realize you are weak and accept it, hopefully folks will sit down and have a plan to get stronger. It’s better than pretending for decades and then getting wiped out. This was always going to happen eventually.
coliveira 1y ago
Europe just fell for Trump's oldest trick: ask for the world and get a large concession in return. Doesn't anyone in EU know how to deal with con men like Trump? Look at other countries like China and Brazil. They're not conceding anything.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
dragonelite 1y ago
Yeah but EU leadership did everything in their powers to work themselves into these set of cards. I would bet Russian political elites are laughing their asses of because they were successful in their pivot to Asia and away from Europe. Into a westless world order, where they are actually sitting at the table and are not part of the menu.
surgical_fire 1y ago
It was a ridiculous capitulation. The bright side is that key points of this deal are unlikely to go through EU parliament, essentially killing it in its inception.

It might be less beneficial than the previous position, but nonetheless more beneficial than the alternative. If the deal was the best available then its not "selling out", its being realistic.

lilwobbles 1y ago

Trump has backed down on most of the outrageous tariffs (200% tarriff on China). The alternative was a false reality that the EU believed because they are scared of Trump and bad at negotiating. I'm glad the American people at least know how weak the EU is, we should elect someone next time that will bring those tariffs up to 100%, and the EU will have to take it because it's better than a 200% tariff alternative. That's just being realistic, right?

rsynnott 1y ago
This is a rather confused view of the situation. 30% tariffs on EU imports would be very bad for _the US_. Trump tends to present trade as a zero sum game, but it very much isn’t; outside of limited scenarios (generally developing countries protecting otherwise unviable local industry with targeted tariffs), tariffs generally hurt both sides.
- graemep 1y ago
  Trump may present trade imbalances as a zero sum game, I am pretty sure he does not believe it. The real thinking is that being a net importer gives you more negotiating power so you can use that to get a better deal. its well worth looking at what people like Miran and Bessent said (before they were in government) to see what is driving all this.
graemep 1y ago
As far as I know (am I mistaken?) the US reduced tariffs to 10% in return for China reducing tariffs to 10%, and reducing restrictions on the exports of rare earths. That sounds more like China backed down than the US did. The EU is a lot weaker than China. China dominates critical areas of manufacturing, and does not have the level of dependence Europe (non-EU as well) has on the US - I hardly need remind people here of the dependence in IT systems.
- stubish 1y ago
  China put retaliatory tariffs in place and placed restrictions on the exports of rare earths, calling the US bluff and forcing them to negotiate down to where things stand today.
Phelinofist 1y ago
Man, you are really butthurt about the EU, see also your comment on the Mistral/ASML post

nwellnhof 1y ago

That's what Europeans tell themselves, but showing weakness just sets them up for more humiliation.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
I see no benefit in ginning up tensions for myself, but I accept that there are power centers that do benefit from it. In a very practical sense, having a slightly less bad situation is better than a bad one. I could offer a real life anecdote, but I am not certain where you are going with this conversation.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  See https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_danegeld.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_danegeld.htm Trump is "making deals" by making the other option worse. But the problem is, if you take the current best option, that may not be the deal for long. He may do it again... and again... "I am altering the deal. Pray that I do not alter it further." When dealing with someone like this, don't play the game the first time.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    I don't disagree. It is a reasonable and forward looking consideration. That said, it may be a little late to do that. Not to mention, for all the talk about how Americans being unable to handle hardship, higher prices and whatnot.. I am reasonably certain that this extends to most of the '1st world'.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
mensetmanusman 1y ago
This is good, once you realize you are weak and accept it, hopefully folks will sit down and have a plan to get stronger. It’s better than pretending for decades and then getting wiped out. This was always going to happen eventually.

coliveira 1y ago

Europe just fell for Trump's oldest trick: ask for the world and get a large concession in return. Doesn't anyone in EU know how to deal with con men like Trump? Look at other countries like China and Brazil. They're not conceding anything.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

dragonelite 1y ago

Yeah but EU leadership did everything in their powers to work themselves into these set of cards. I would bet Russian political elites are laughing their asses of because they were successful in their pivot to Asia and away from Europe. Into a westless world order, where they are actually sitting at the table and are not part of the menu.

surgical_fire 1y ago

It was a ridiculous capitulation. The bright side is that key points of this deal are unlikely to go through EU parliament, essentially killing it in its inception.