4 ms·

I think malware check should be opt-in for package authors, but provide some kind of 'verified' badge to the package. Edit: typo

by sesm 1y ago

naugtur 1y ago
npm is on life support by msft. But there's socket.dev that can tell you if a package is malicious within hours of it being published.
- shreddit 1y ago
  “within hours” is at least one hour too late, and most likely multiple hours.
  - naugtur 1y ago
    Absolutely not. you get npm packages by pulling not them pushing them to you as soon as a new version exist. The likelyhood of you updating instantly is close to zero and if not, you should set your stuff up so that it is. Many ways to do that. Even better if compared to a month or two - which is how long it often takes for a researcher to find a carefully planted malware. Anyway, the case where reactive tools (detections, warnings) don't catch it is why LavaMoat exists. It prevents whole classes of malware from working at runtime. The article (and repo) demonstrates that.
    - rs186 1y ago
      Sure, it should never happen in CI environment. But I bet that every second, someone in the world is running "npm install" to bring in a new dependency to a new/existing project, and the impact of a malicious release can be broad very quickly. Vibe coding is not going to slow this down.
      - naugtur 1y ago
        Vibe coding brings up the need for even more granular isolation. I'm on it ;) LavaMoat Webpack Plugin will soom have the ability to treat parts of your app same as it currently treats packages - with isolation and policy limiting what they can do.
    - bavarianbob 1y ago
      I've worked in software supply chain security for two years now and this is an extremely optimistic take. Nearly all organizations are not even remotely close to this level of responsiveness.
      - naugtur 1y ago
        Again, that's why LavaMoat exists. Set it up once and it will block many classes of attacks regardless of where they come from.
  - Cthulhu_ 1y ago
    Depends on whether they hold publishing to the main audience until said scan has finished.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
I always thought this would be the ideal monetization path for NPM; enterprises pay them, NPM only supplies verified package releases, ideally delayed by hours/days after release so that anything that slips through the cracks has a chance to get caught.
- chrisweekly 1y ago
  Enterprises today typically use a custom registry, which can include any desired amount of scans and rigorous controls.
- johannes1234321 1y ago
  That would put them into liability or be a quite worthless agreement taking no responsibility.
yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
> but provide some kind of 'verified' badge to the package I would worry that that results in a false sense of security. Even if the actual badge says "passes some heuristics that catch only the most obvious malicious code", many people will read "totally 100% safe, please use with reckless abandon".
madeofpalk 1y ago
They already have this https://docs.npmjs.com/trusted-publishers https://docs.npmjs.com/trusted-publishers https://docs.npmjs.com/generating-provenance-statements https://docs.npmjs.com/generating-provenance-statements

I think malware check should be opt-in for package authors, but provide some kind of 'verified' badge to the package. Edit: typo

by sesm 1y ago

I think malware check should be opt-in for package authors, but provide some kind of 'verified' badge to the package. Edit: typo

naugtur 1y ago

npm is on life support by msft. But there's socket.dev that can tell you if a package is malicious within hours of it being published.

shreddit 1y ago
“within hours” is at least one hour too late, and most likely multiple hours.
- naugtur 1y ago
  Absolutely not. you get npm packages by pulling not them pushing them to you as soon as a new version exist. The likelyhood of you updating instantly is close to zero and if not, you should set your stuff up so that it is. Many ways to do that. Even better if compared to a month or two - which is how long it often takes for a researcher to find a carefully planted malware. Anyway, the case where reactive tools (detections, warnings) don't catch it is why LavaMoat exists. It prevents whole classes of malware from working at runtime. The article (and repo) demonstrates that.
  - rs186 1y ago
    Sure, it should never happen in CI environment. But I bet that every second, someone in the world is running "npm install" to bring in a new dependency to a new/existing project, and the impact of a malicious release can be broad very quickly. Vibe coding is not going to slow this down.
    - naugtur 1y ago
      Vibe coding brings up the need for even more granular isolation. I'm on it ;) LavaMoat Webpack Plugin will soom have the ability to treat parts of your app same as it currently treats packages - with isolation and policy limiting what they can do.
  - bavarianbob 1y ago
    I've worked in software supply chain security for two years now and this is an extremely optimistic take. Nearly all organizations are not even remotely close to this level of responsiveness.
    - naugtur 1y ago
      Again, that's why LavaMoat exists. Set it up once and it will block many classes of attacks regardless of where they come from.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  Depends on whether they hold publishing to the main audience until said scan has finished.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago

I always thought this would be the ideal monetization path for NPM; enterprises pay them, NPM only supplies verified package releases, ideally delayed by hours/days after release so that anything that slips through the cracks has a chance to get caught.

chrisweekly 1y ago
Enterprises today typically use a custom registry, which can include any desired amount of scans and rigorous controls.
johannes1234321 1y ago
That would put them into liability or be a quite worthless agreement taking no responsibility.

yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago

> but provide some kind of 'verified' badge to the package I would worry that that results in a false sense of security. Even if the actual badge says "passes some heuristics that catch only the most obvious malicious code", many people will read "totally 100% safe, please use with reckless abandon".

madeofpalk 1y ago

They already have this https://docs.npmjs.com/trusted-publishers https://docs.npmjs.com/trusted-publishers https://docs.npmjs.com/generating-provenance-statements https://docs.npmjs.com/generating-provenance-statements