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We have a model for what intelligence is - what humans do. If we produce a human-like AI I think we'll agree it's intelligent. The fact that there are degrees

We have a model for what intelligence is - what humans do. If we produce a human-like AI I think we'll agree it's intelligent. The fact that there are degrees of intelligence (dogs > flies) isn't that big of an issue, imo. It's the logically night is day argument - just because we can't point to a clear cut off point between these concepts, doesn't mean they aren't distinct concepts. So it follows with intelligence. It doesn't require consensus, just the same way that "is it night now?" doesn't require consensus

ggm 1y ago
> I think we'll agree it's intelligent. If there's one thing I've found never came true for me, it's almost any sentence of substantive opinion about "philosophy" which starts with "I think we'll agree" And I do think this AI/AGI question is a philosophy question. I don't know if you'll agree with that. Whilst your analogy has strong elements of "consensus not required" I am less sure that applies right now, to what we think about AI/AGI. I think consensus is pretty .. important, and also, absent.
- peterashford 1y ago
  As a person with a degree in Philosophy, I'm going to disagree with you. Discussions about meaning often rely a great deal on what people would usually expect words to mean. I do think issues of AI/AGI are often Philosophical in nature and I was not claiming that consensus is not required. What I'm arguing against is the requirement for rigorous definitions for words that exist in natural language. Language is messy and often ambiguous - especially around AI. If we want to have rigorous terms to discuss the state of the art - which I believe we do - then we should define terms for that purpose. i.e: AI needs it's own jargon.
shkkmo 1y ago
> We have a model for what intelligence is - what humans do. At what point does a human become intelligent? Is a 12 cell embryon intelligent? Is a newborn intelligent? Is a 1 year old intelligent? > It's the logically night is day argument - just because we can't point to a clear cut off point Um...what? There may be more than one of them, but precise definitions exist for the transitions between day and night. I think that is a very poor analogy to intelligence. There are not just degrees of intelligence but different kinds. It is easier for us to understand and evaluate intelligence that is more similar ours and it becomes increasingly harder the more alien it becomes. Given that, I don't see how you could reject that assertion that LLMs have some kind of intelligence. Asking
- peterashford 1y ago
  It wasn't an analogy for Intelligence it was an illustration of a class of definition

ggm 1y ago

> I think we'll agree it's intelligent. If there's one thing I've found never came true for me, it's almost any sentence of substantive opinion about "philosophy" which starts with "I think we'll agree" And I do think this AI/AGI question is a philosophy question. I don't know if you'll agree with that. Whilst your analogy has strong elements of "consensus not required" I am less sure that applies right now, to what we think about AI/AGI. I think consensus is pretty .. important, and also, absent.

peterashford 1y ago
As a person with a degree in Philosophy, I'm going to disagree with you. Discussions about meaning often rely a great deal on what people would usually expect words to mean. I do think issues of AI/AGI are often Philosophical in nature and I was not claiming that consensus is not required. What I'm arguing against is the requirement for rigorous definitions for words that exist in natural language. Language is messy and often ambiguous - especially around AI. If we want to have rigorous terms to discuss the state of the art - which I believe we do - then we should define terms for that purpose. i.e: AI needs it's own jargon.

shkkmo 1y ago

> We have a model for what intelligence is - what humans do. At what point does a human become intelligent? Is a 12 cell embryon intelligent? Is a newborn intelligent? Is a 1 year old intelligent? > It's the logically night is day argument - just because we can't point to a clear cut off point Um...what? There may be more than one of them, but precise definitions exist for the transitions between day and night. I think that is a very poor analogy to intelligence. There are not just degrees of intelligence but different kinds. It is easier for us to understand and evaluate intelligence that is more similar ours and it becomes increasingly harder the more alien it becomes. Given that, I don't see how you could reject that assertion that LLMs have some kind of intelligence. Asking

peterashford 1y ago
It wasn't an analogy for Intelligence it was an illustration of a class of definition