5 ms·

The people of europe need to stop pretending that whatever controls europe is interested in democoracy, free speech, justice or freedom.

Nursie 1y ago
Why? Democracy is being served. People want this stuff. HN people maybe not, but let's not pretend we represent anything but a noisy minority. It's entirely democratic AFAICT, "think of the children" and "think of the terrorists" won the argument some time ago. Free speech is not held as an absolute in many countries as it is in the US, and never has been. It is in a bad state in some places (the UK seems to be performing poorly on this measure) but a lot of places feel the right to spew whatever toxic lies spring to mind without consequences might not be entirely healthy either. Justice? I think justice is performed better in many European nations than most of the rest of the world. And freedom... lots of people like to claim the US is the most free place on earth, but it's really not clear that's true. There are freedoms in other countries not enjoyed in the US. Here in Australia for example, I am free to collect the rainwater and filter it for my drinking-water supply, something that's not true in every state.
- petermcneeley 1y ago
  If you've seen nothing and if the crimes of the government remain unknown to you then ... well enough said. Enjoy your water.
  - Nursie 1y ago
    The point is that things can be bad without being melodramatically the end of democracy. Is this an authoritarian move that ought to be spoken against by those who know and care? Absolutely. Does it mean that there's no more democracy in Europe? No, that's a little ridiculous.
    - petermcneeley 1y ago
      Who are you trying to convince? I cant help you.
      - Nursie 1y ago
        I’m not trying to convince anyone, I’m poking holes in your silly hyperbole and lazy catastrophising.
        petermcneeley 1y ago
        The worst part is when you betray yourself for nothing.

Nursie 1y ago

Why? Democracy is being served. People want this stuff. HN people maybe not, but let's not pretend we represent anything but a noisy minority. It's entirely democratic AFAICT, "think of the children" and "think of the terrorists" won the argument some time ago. Free speech is not held as an absolute in many countries as it is in the US, and never has been. It is in a bad state in some places (the UK seems to be performing poorly on this measure) but a lot of places feel the right to spew whatever toxic lies spring to mind without consequences might not be entirely healthy either. Justice? I think justice is performed better in many European nations than most of the rest of the world. And freedom... lots of people like to claim the US is the most free place on earth, but it's really not clear that's true. There are freedoms in other countries not enjoyed in the US. Here in Australia for example, I am free to collect the rainwater and filter it for my drinking-water supply, something that's not true in every state.

petermcneeley 1y ago
If you've seen nothing and if the crimes of the government remain unknown to you then ... well enough said. Enjoy your water.
- Nursie 1y ago
  The point is that things can be bad without being melodramatically the end of democracy. Is this an authoritarian move that ought to be spoken against by those who know and care? Absolutely. Does it mean that there's no more democracy in Europe? No, that's a little ridiculous.
  - petermcneeley 1y ago
    Who are you trying to convince? I cant help you.
    - Nursie 1y ago
      I’m not trying to convince anyone, I’m poking holes in your silly hyperbole and lazy catastrophising.
      - petermcneeley 1y ago
        The worst part is when you betray yourself for nothing.