3 ms·

The very sparse std is one of the few genuine mistakes I think Rust has made. I know the arguments for it, but I don't find them persuasive. A batteries include

by bigstrat2003 1y ago

The very sparse std is one of the few genuine mistakes I think Rust has made. I know the arguments for it, but I don't find them persuasive. A batteries included standard library, in my view, is just plain better and every modern language should have one.

forrestthewoods 1y ago
Oh man I feel the opposite. Rust is an example where a sparse stdlib is clearly superior and better and more successful. I mostly write C++ whose committee is incompetent and sniffs glue. And I deal a lot with Khronos committed who design pure garbage. “Design by Committee” is a pejorative for a reason.
ModernMech 1y ago
But what batteries to include? I'm sure your list of batteries is probably very different from mine, reflecting the difference in the work we both do. A lot of times when I hear a language has "batteries included", it's a bunch of features for web devs and nothing I would consider a "battery" for my projects.
- gingerBill 1y ago
  What do you consider your set of "Batteries Include"?
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    Basically the stuff in here: https://www.ros.org https://www.ros.org
    - gingerBill 1y ago
      I've been looking through the repository list and that is not "batteries included", that's "everything, the kitchen sink, and the city". Unless I am reading this (https://index.ros.org/?search_repos=true https://index.ros.org/?search_repos=true) wrong.
      - ModernMech 1y ago
        That's pretty much my point -- my batteries aren't your batteries. If you're building houses, kitchen sinks are your parts. I'm high up on the abstraction stack so I need SLAM, and Kalman filters, advanced logging, mesh pub/sub networking in my stdlib. Here's another example of one of my "batteries" that is perhaps a little more concise: https://www.mathworks.com/products/image-processing.html https://www.mathworks.com/products/image-processing.html Something like OpenCV in the language stdlib is my idea of "batteries included". Like I said: what you consider batteries are not what people in my line of work consider batteries; Odin advertises "batteries included" but looking through the list I wouldn't use any of that in my day to day. That's why Rust has a small stdlib of just the essentials, because doing so keeps things general, and everyone gets to choose their own idea of batteries.

forrestthewoods 1y ago

Oh man I feel the opposite. Rust is an example where a sparse stdlib is clearly superior and better and more successful. I mostly write C++ whose committee is incompetent and sniffs glue. And I deal a lot with Khronos committed who design pure garbage. “Design by Committee” is a pejorative for a reason.

ModernMech 1y ago

But what batteries to include? I'm sure your list of batteries is probably very different from mine, reflecting the difference in the work we both do. A lot of times when I hear a language has "batteries included", it's a bunch of features for web devs and nothing I would consider a "battery" for my projects.

gingerBill 1y ago
What do you consider your set of "Batteries Include"?
- ModernMech 1y ago
  Basically the stuff in here: https://www.ros.org https://www.ros.org
  - gingerBill 1y ago
    I've been looking through the repository list and that is not "batteries included", that's "everything, the kitchen sink, and the city". Unless I am reading this (https://index.ros.org/?search_repos=true https://index.ros.org/?search_repos=true) wrong.
    - ModernMech 1y ago
      That's pretty much my point -- my batteries aren't your batteries. If you're building houses, kitchen sinks are your parts. I'm high up on the abstraction stack so I need SLAM, and Kalman filters, advanced logging, mesh pub/sub networking in my stdlib. Here's another example of one of my "batteries" that is perhaps a little more concise: https://www.mathworks.com/products/image-processing.html https://www.mathworks.com/products/image-processing.html Something like OpenCV in the language stdlib is my idea of "batteries included". Like I said: what you consider batteries are not what people in my line of work consider batteries; Odin advertises "batteries included" but looking through the list I wouldn't use any of that in my day to day. That's why Rust has a small stdlib of just the essentials, because doing so keeps things general, and everyone gets to choose their own idea of batteries.