5 ms·

CATL launches LFP battery with 470 miles range and 10-minute charging

59 points by breve 1y ago

dzhiurgis 1y ago
> When the battery is at a 20% state of charge (SOC), the Shenxing battery will deliver up to 830 kW Crazy times we live in when 1000hp+ cars are nothing special anymore.
tanseydavid 1y ago
Impressive for sure.
SigmundA 1y ago
Hmm batteries don't have range, vehicles have range. Battery have energy storage capacity and I don't see it listed anywhere very annoying. I bet a could get 470 miles out of 75kwh battery under the right conditions with the right vehicle. A Chevy Silverado EV got 1000 miles out of a 200kwh and its a brick. Saying a battery has range is a nonsensical statement. Tell me how much energy it stores and how much it weighs thats whats important.
- kragen 1y ago
  Gravimetric energy capacity limits range, which is why ICE cars outcompeted electric cars for a century until the batteries got Goodenough. Basically the problem is that, once most of the vehicle's weight is battery, adding 5× the battery capacity adds 5× the weight and thus 5× the rolling resistance, so it only increases the range slightly. LFP has historically been inferior to other lithium-ion chemistries like NMC in gravimetric energy density, so the range of the resulting vehicle is a major consideration.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - _ea1k 1y ago
    I understood that reference. :) One funny thing though... the issues have had more to do with volumetric energy capacity than weight. See also tests like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA That's why vehicles like Semi trucks can get by with batteries that are only ~4x bigger than a Silverado EV, weigh 8.5x more, and still manage to also produce higher ranges.
    - kragen 1y ago
      Hmm, really? Maybe I'm not understanding the most important issues.
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  TFA says it’s 470 miles of range under the WLTP which seems to be a fairly standardized test procedure for light vehicle fuel economy and emissions. One could in good faith assume it means “install this in a normal light vehicle (sedan?) and you’re likely to get about 470 miles of range when driven under normal conditions”. That said I agree that range is NOT the best way to measure a battery’s energy storage capacity - definitely not the right unit, it’s like measuring computing capacity in megahertz. Oh wait :)
ranger_danger 1y ago
It's just LiFePO4 though (which laptop batteries have been using for many years now), still not solid-state. Still a liquid electrolyte susceptible to dendrite formation, thermal runaway/self-ignition, ejecting flammable gases and hot sparks, still capable of contributing to explosions.
- igor47 1y ago
  Lifepo4 is much much less likely to runway self ignite than li ion batteries, at the cost of lower energy density. I'm surprised to hear of laptops with lifepo4 -- what are some examples?
  - Rediscover 1y ago
    OLPC XO1 and the MNT Reform both use LiFePO4.
- hadlock 1y ago
  I think you're confusing li-poly and lithium ion, with lifepo4. There's no shortage of videos on youtube of people cutting open lifepo4 with kitchen knives, band saws, and hammers without ill effect.
  - ranger_danger 1y ago
    False equivalence IMO... cutting into an unconnected battery is not how battery fires typically start, not a typical act people perform with their batteries, nor really related to self-ignition, dendrites or thermal runaway at all.
    - hadlock 1y ago
      If you want to look at it from another angle, you often can't get insurance for a boat with "regular" lithium house batteries, however most/all insurance companies have a carve-out for lifepo4 as it's recognized industry-wide as one of the safest battery technologies available under a wide variety of conditions.
hnburnsy 1y ago
Without knowing the energy density what is the point here?
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  The headline is 12C charge rate, not capacity. Also charging below freezing temperatures is huge achievement for LFP.
cwt137 1y ago
I didn't see anything in the article about battery capacity or the density. This (with the other info in the article) would tell us if this is groundbreaking or not.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
---------------------------------------------------------------- Dear battery technology claimant, Thank you for your submission of proposed new revolutionary battery technology. Your new technology claims to be superior to existing lithium-ion technology is is just around the corner from taking over the world. Unfortunately your technology will likely fail, because: [ ] it is impractical to manufacture at scale. [ ] it will be too expensive for users. [ ] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. [ ] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels. [ ] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures. [ ] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable. [ ] it has too short of a lifetime. [ ] its charge rate is too slow. [ ] its materials are too toxic. [ ] it is too likely to catch fire or explode. [ ] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care. [ ] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then. [ ] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it. [ ] your claims are lies. ----------------------------------------------------------------
- discordance 1y ago
  FUD. - CATL currently manufactures around 40% of the worlds EV batteries. They know how to scale manufacturing. - LFP batteries do not catch fire or explode. - Most of your other comments don't apply either.
  - FridayoLeary 1y ago
    just a copypasta i particularly like. It's a checklist i don't know which ones apply here, but it's likely that at least one does.
    - dzhiurgis 1y ago
      This joke was funny a decade ago. EVs have been practical for ages now. See how well early model Teslas fared. Some people doing 1-2 million miles. 300k miles is not uncommon. You don't need revolutionary batteries (similarly you don't need next generation nuclear plants, ordinary ones create so immense amount of wealth for generations). Batteries improved like 10-15% since early Teslas. Similarly motor/aero/electronics efficiency. Overall 30% gain in range. If right charge infrastructure it's perfectly enough for 99% of passenger cars.
dyauspitr 1y ago
This is useless without energy density. For example NCM batteries in most American EVs are around 170Wh/kg while the Shexing PLUS is at 205Wh/kg. Significant but not mind blowing. I doubt the new pro version has a dramatically higher density.
DoesntMatter22 1y ago
This reads like a propaganda piece written by CATL. Batteries don't have range cars have range so I'm not even sure what this means sure a battery with four wheels would get great mileage otherwise it's not clear what this even means
- jfengel 1y ago
  It is written by CATL. They prefer to call it a "press release", but yeah, "propaganda" is also accurate. Here's the primary source: https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html Some reporter at Electrek gave it a very light polish and put their name on it.
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html Is the press release this seems based on. It seems like they might have translated "warranty" as "lifespan" for one model of the battery.

59 points by breve 1y ago

> When the battery is at a 20% state of charge (SOC), the Shenxing battery will deliver up to 830 kW Crazy times we live in when 1000hp+ cars are nothing special anymore.

tanseydavid 1y ago

Impressive for sure.

SigmundA 1y ago

Hmm batteries don't have range, vehicles have range. Battery have energy storage capacity and I don't see it listed anywhere very annoying. I bet a could get 470 miles out of 75kwh battery under the right conditions with the right vehicle. A Chevy Silverado EV got 1000 miles out of a 200kwh and its a brick. Saying a battery has range is a nonsensical statement. Tell me how much energy it stores and how much it weighs thats whats important.

kragen 1y ago
Gravimetric energy capacity limits range, which is why ICE cars outcompeted electric cars for a century until the batteries got Goodenough. Basically the problem is that, once most of the vehicle's weight is battery, adding 5× the battery capacity adds 5× the weight and thus 5× the rolling resistance, so it only increases the range slightly. LFP has historically been inferior to other lithium-ion chemistries like NMC in gravimetric energy density, so the range of the resulting vehicle is a major consideration.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- _ea1k 1y ago
  I understood that reference. :) One funny thing though... the issues have had more to do with volumetric energy capacity than weight. See also tests like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKf8smvGsA That's why vehicles like Semi trucks can get by with batteries that are only ~4x bigger than a Silverado EV, weigh 8.5x more, and still manage to also produce higher ranges.
  - kragen 1y ago
    Hmm, really? Maybe I'm not understanding the most important issues.
loloquwowndueo 1y ago
TFA says it’s 470 miles of range under the WLTP which seems to be a fairly standardized test procedure for light vehicle fuel economy and emissions. One could in good faith assume it means “install this in a normal light vehicle (sedan?) and you’re likely to get about 470 miles of range when driven under normal conditions”. That said I agree that range is NOT the best way to measure a battery’s energy storage capacity - definitely not the right unit, it’s like measuring computing capacity in megahertz. Oh wait :)

ranger_danger 1y ago

It's just LiFePO4 though (which laptop batteries have been using for many years now), still not solid-state. Still a liquid electrolyte susceptible to dendrite formation, thermal runaway/self-ignition, ejecting flammable gases and hot sparks, still capable of contributing to explosions.

igor47 1y ago
Lifepo4 is much much less likely to runway self ignite than li ion batteries, at the cost of lower energy density. I'm surprised to hear of laptops with lifepo4 -- what are some examples?
- Rediscover 1y ago
  OLPC XO1 and the MNT Reform both use LiFePO4.
hadlock 1y ago
I think you're confusing li-poly and lithium ion, with lifepo4. There's no shortage of videos on youtube of people cutting open lifepo4 with kitchen knives, band saws, and hammers without ill effect.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  False equivalence IMO... cutting into an unconnected battery is not how battery fires typically start, not a typical act people perform with their batteries, nor really related to self-ignition, dendrites or thermal runaway at all.
  - hadlock 1y ago
    If you want to look at it from another angle, you often can't get insurance for a boat with "regular" lithium house batteries, however most/all insurance companies have a carve-out for lifepo4 as it's recognized industry-wide as one of the safest battery technologies available under a wide variety of conditions.

hnburnsy 1y ago

Without knowing the energy density what is the point here?

dzhiurgis 1y ago
The headline is 12C charge rate, not capacity. Also charging below freezing temperatures is huge achievement for LFP.

cwt137 1y ago

I didn't see anything in the article about battery capacity or the density. This (with the other info in the article) would tell us if this is groundbreaking or not.

FridayoLeary 1y ago

---------------------------------------------------------------- Dear battery technology claimant, Thank you for your submission of proposed new revolutionary battery technology. Your new technology claims to be superior to existing lithium-ion technology is is just around the corner from taking over the world. Unfortunately your technology will likely fail, because: [ ] it is impractical to manufacture at scale. [ ] it will be too expensive for users. [ ] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. [ ] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels. [ ] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures. [ ] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable. [ ] it has too short of a lifetime. [ ] its charge rate is too slow. [ ] its materials are too toxic. [ ] it is too likely to catch fire or explode. [ ] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care. [ ] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then. [ ] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it. [ ] your claims are lies. ----------------------------------------------------------------

discordance 1y ago
FUD. - CATL currently manufactures around 40% of the worlds EV batteries. They know how to scale manufacturing. - LFP batteries do not catch fire or explode. - Most of your other comments don't apply either.
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
  just a copypasta i particularly like. It's a checklist i don't know which ones apply here, but it's likely that at least one does.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    This joke was funny a decade ago. EVs have been practical for ages now. See how well early model Teslas fared. Some people doing 1-2 million miles. 300k miles is not uncommon. You don't need revolutionary batteries (similarly you don't need next generation nuclear plants, ordinary ones create so immense amount of wealth for generations). Batteries improved like 10-15% since early Teslas. Similarly motor/aero/electronics efficiency. Overall 30% gain in range. If right charge infrastructure it's perfectly enough for 99% of passenger cars.

dyauspitr 1y ago

This is useless without energy density. For example NCM batteries in most American EVs are around 170Wh/kg while the Shexing PLUS is at 205Wh/kg. Significant but not mind blowing. I doubt the new pro version has a dramatically higher density.

DoesntMatter22 1y ago

This reads like a propaganda piece written by CATL. Batteries don't have range cars have range so I'm not even sure what this means sure a battery with four wheels would get great mileage otherwise it's not clear what this even means

jfengel 1y ago
It is written by CATL. They prefer to call it a "press release", but yeah, "propaganda" is also accurate. Here's the primary source: https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html Some reporter at Electrek gave it a very light polish and put their name on it.

ZeroGravitas 1y ago

https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6527.html Is the press release this seems based on. It seems like they might have translated "warranty" as "lifespan" for one model of the battery.