5 ms·

All clickwheel iPod games have now been preserved for posterity

266 points by CharlesW 1y ago

toomuchtodo 1y ago
https://github.com/Olsro/ipodclickwheelgamespreservationproject https://github.com/Olsro/ipodclickwheelgamespreservationproj... https://archive.org/details/icgpp https://archive.org/details/icgpp
- HelloUsername 1y ago
  posted 29-oct-2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41978486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41978486
chmod775 1y ago
Reminds of those games Archos (Gmini or AV?) devices had decades ago. Some of them were quite neat.
- black_puppydog 1y ago
  dear god I had forgotten Achos. I had a Gmini 120 and loved it. :)
h4ch1 1y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7mdKy3opo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7mdKy3opo If someone like me wanted to see a playthrough. What a trip down memory lane. Still remember having Mr Bean's Holiday on my clickwheel iPod and watching it every time my parents took me somewhere to the point I remembered all the dialogues. Good times.
Tepix 1y ago
Great to see this piece of history preserved. We need more innovative game controllers!
black_puppydog 1y ago
Okay, now all we need is to port them to the tangara. :D
- Pfhortune 1y ago
  I wanted to love the Tangara... The dearth of actual buttons killed it for me. I have shelved it in favor of modding up my iPod 5 with BT + USB-C (with the moonlit.market kit).
ksynwa 1y ago
Sorry but I have a tangential question. What is the state of portable music players these days? Are there any that are good and reasonably priced?
- aa-jv 1y ago
  FIIO's M21 looks pretty decent: https://www.fiio.com/m21 https://www.fiio.com/m21 Its an audiophile market now, you know .. gold buttons sound better, and all that.
  - pjerem 1y ago
    "reasonably priced"
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      $300 is reasonable, imho. Cheaper than an iPhone anyway.
    - mystifyingpoi 1y ago
      It's not really a mp3 player that a regular person would use anyway. Seems to be all on high-res audio and high power output for the headphones. No casual music listener needs that.
  - taneliv 1y ago
    "Buy now" button goes to a 404 page? Or maybe I need to be on a Chinese VPN, who knows these days. (Anyway, I was merely interested in the price range, and probably not actually buying.) Sony Walkman series also has nifty looking devices, but way over my budget (even the entry level model).
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      Dunno whats up with their "Buy Now" button, other than its not unusual for manufacturers to not actually sell their products direct. Amazon has it listed for 220euro's, which is a reasonable price imho. Of course there are other manufacturers out there, this is just the one I know about ..
singular_atomic 1y ago
Wondering if Apple revived the iPod today, would it actually take off? Feels like everyone’s trying to cut back on phone time.
- NoLinkToMe 1y ago
  Doubt it, there’s plenty of mp3 players out there including 2nd hand ipods. You don’t see them in use much. Ratio of for sale / in-use is probably a good indicator for a new product not to take off. Also most watches can function as music players with wireless headphones nowadays. For a while I ran a low-notification apple watch purely for the time, nfc (payments and to enter the gym) and music functions.
  - anthk 1y ago
    They could call it... disconnectng pod... iDisco-pod.
  - eesmith 1y ago
    I agree there are many options. I have a 2nd hand iPod, now replaced with a Tangara, which has USB C instead of the now flaky iPod connector with a chain of adapters. A friend told me that in competitive climbing people are required to be in isolation before the climb. As https://climbingbusinessjournal.com/strategies-to-help-youth-team-climbers-survive-isolation-the-short-beta/ https://climbingbusinessjournal.com/strategies-to-help-youth... says: "Communication in and out of Iso is always prohibited because someone could relay pictures of the competition routes for climbers to preview, resulting in an unfair advantage. Therefore, all electronics with internet connection are not allowed. An iPod without internet capability is allowed for warming up, but you are forbidden from listening to music while you are climbing the competition routes. I guess this sentence should be obvious, but no walkie talkies, cans on a string, smoke signals, etc." There's also parents who get internet-free music devices for their kids. I've even heard of a kid who could take an old iPod Shuffle with them to a "no screen" camp, as it has no screen.
- phire 1y ago
  Most people don't consider listening to music on your phone to count as "Screen Time".
sippeangelo 1y ago
iPod games in all honor, but none of these games beat jailbreaking your 1st gen iPod nano, dual-booting whatever OS and playing the Half-Life 1 DOOM Wad on it. My only regret in life is exchanging it for the 6th gen when Apple did a recall for some reason.
reaperducer 1y ago
It takes a few minutes to get used to the controls, but Ms. Pac-Man on an iPod Video is quite good.
Razengan 1y ago
I'm still salty that the Special Edition versions of Monkey Island that I purchased on iPad like 10 years ago can't be played anymore. They weren't updated and LucasArts pulled the games from the store, which is a damn shame because they were the PERFECT examples of paid-games on iPad that were a great experience on the iPad given the point-&-click nature translating quite well to a tap interface.
- kderbe 1y ago
  The app I most regret losing in the 64-bit transition is Disney Animated [1]. App Of The Year in 2013, and gone completely a few years later... [1] https://mashable.com/archive/disney-animation-app https://mashable.com/archive/disney-animation-app
- xenophonf 1y ago
  I'm really mad at Half Brick for killing classic Fruit Ninja. I actually spent money on that game and on Jetpack Joyride, only to lose both sets of purchases. They suck.
Dathuil 1y ago
I remember being on a plane as a kid and seeing someone playing sonic on their ipod video across the aisle and my mind being blown. I assumed it was some sort of jailbreak that loaded the games on. I had no idea they were an actually supported feature!
- darknavi 1y ago
  GBC games were awesome to play on jailbroken iPod Video!
fidotron 1y ago
The security around developing these things pre launch was a bit hilarious, even compared to later mobile devices/tablets. A few of the members of one team I worked on were instructed to bring their passports to work in the months running up to any expected announcement, and when notified they would be dispatched to a basement in Cupertino with laptops with self contained build environments (a major headache) to produce the game, which would then appear on stage. We've largely forgotten what a strangely big deal iPod launches used to be. I remember being mildly amused/amazed by the fact you could see them announced online and in use on the London Underground within hours.
- q3k 1y ago
  Ooh, I have a lot of questions if you're willing to answer them :). I've been reverse engineering the original iPod software for the iPod Nanos for some time now, and I've seen the interface to 'eApps' (what they seem to call loadable applications) from the OS point of view [1], but I've always wondered about the app developer experience. What was the SDK/toolchain like? Did you have any way to test the software in an emulator/simulator on a PC? What was debugging like? Was the iPod software/hardware you were developing against in any way special? [1] - IIRC after the binary is decrypted, loaded into memory at a fixed address, and a symbol table (based on numeric IDs, not strings) is used to populate a trampoline with function pointers that the app requested. There seems to be no privilege separation between the app and the rest of the OS, as is the case for the iPod software in general.
  - fidotron 1y ago
    TBH had I known too many of the specifics of the platform by now they would be forgotten or I wouldn't be able to mention them! These games were largely heavily derived from their Brew/WinMo/Symbian versions, which were (subset of) C++ games developed on PCs and then retargeted to embedded devices using compilers with annoying licensing servers. Almost everyone that did this enough had their own PC runtime, and would barely touch any device/platform specific emulator even if it existed, a situation that remained the case until Unreal/Unity took over. > There seems to be no privilege separation between the app and the rest of the OS, as is the case for the iPod software in general. This was/is common for most RTOS type environments where MMUs were not a thing. For example, the whole point of Brew and J2ME was to provide some level of separation prior to the later Symbians and then Android/iOS etc.
nanna 1y ago
Any chance to install these games on Rockbox?
- q3k 1y ago
  Technically doable but you'd have to put in a bunch of effort (effectively reimplement the stock OS's API surface, which includes OpenGL for later devices). I also think these games are still not decrypted - some previous ones were, but the methodology was not made public. The decryption routine in the devices I've looked at is obfuscated, so it might be easier to modify the firmware to save decrypted blobs than reimplement it.
adamrezich 1y ago
Phase was such a cool game! I spent a lot of time playing it in high school, both with my music library and with music my friends and I made. Only a couple years ago would I learn that Jon Blow was one of its programmers! https://www.mobygames.com/game/30917/phase/credits/ipod-classic/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/30917/phase/credits/ipod-clas...
Pfhortune 1y ago
Finally! I can play Peggle with a wheel again, as god intended! I really have to applaud the preservers on this one. The installation method is really quite clever! I had thought these games lost forever due to DRM, but happy to get to play them again, even with the bizarre controls!

266 points by CharlesW 1y ago

https://github.com/Olsro/ipodclickwheelgamespreservationproject https://github.com/Olsro/ipodclickwheelgamespreservationproj... https://archive.org/details/icgpp https://archive.org/details/icgpp

HelloUsername 1y ago
posted 29-oct-2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41978486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41978486

chmod775 1y ago

Reminds of those games Archos (Gmini or AV?) devices had decades ago. Some of them were quite neat.

black_puppydog 1y ago
dear god I had forgotten Achos. I had a Gmini 120 and loved it. :)

h4ch1 1y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7mdKy3opo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7mdKy3opo If someone like me wanted to see a playthrough. What a trip down memory lane. Still remember having Mr Bean's Holiday on my clickwheel iPod and watching it every time my parents took me somewhere to the point I remembered all the dialogues. Good times.

Tepix 1y ago

Great to see this piece of history preserved. We need more innovative game controllers!

black_puppydog 1y ago

Okay, now all we need is to port them to the tangara. :D

Pfhortune 1y ago
I wanted to love the Tangara... The dearth of actual buttons killed it for me. I have shelved it in favor of modding up my iPod 5 with BT + USB-C (with the moonlit.market kit).

ksynwa 1y ago

Sorry but I have a tangential question. What is the state of portable music players these days? Are there any that are good and reasonably priced?

aa-jv 1y ago
FIIO's M21 looks pretty decent: https://www.fiio.com/m21 https://www.fiio.com/m21 Its an audiophile market now, you know .. gold buttons sound better, and all that.
- pjerem 1y ago
  "reasonably priced"
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    $300 is reasonable, imho. Cheaper than an iPhone anyway.
  - mystifyingpoi 1y ago
    It's not really a mp3 player that a regular person would use anyway. Seems to be all on high-res audio and high power output for the headphones. No casual music listener needs that.
- taneliv 1y ago
  "Buy now" button goes to a 404 page? Or maybe I need to be on a Chinese VPN, who knows these days. (Anyway, I was merely interested in the price range, and probably not actually buying.) Sony Walkman series also has nifty looking devices, but way over my budget (even the entry level model).
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    Dunno whats up with their "Buy Now" button, other than its not unusual for manufacturers to not actually sell their products direct. Amazon has it listed for 220euro's, which is a reasonable price imho. Of course there are other manufacturers out there, this is just the one I know about ..

singular_atomic 1y ago

Wondering if Apple revived the iPod today, would it actually take off? Feels like everyone’s trying to cut back on phone time.

NoLinkToMe 1y ago
Doubt it, there’s plenty of mp3 players out there including 2nd hand ipods. You don’t see them in use much. Ratio of for sale / in-use is probably a good indicator for a new product not to take off. Also most watches can function as music players with wireless headphones nowadays. For a while I ran a low-notification apple watch purely for the time, nfc (payments and to enter the gym) and music functions.
- anthk 1y ago
  They could call it... disconnectng pod... iDisco-pod.
- eesmith 1y ago
  I agree there are many options. I have a 2nd hand iPod, now replaced with a Tangara, which has USB C instead of the now flaky iPod connector with a chain of adapters. A friend told me that in competitive climbing people are required to be in isolation before the climb. As https://climbingbusinessjournal.com/strategies-to-help-youth-team-climbers-survive-isolation-the-short-beta/ https://climbingbusinessjournal.com/strategies-to-help-youth... says: "Communication in and out of Iso is always prohibited because someone could relay pictures of the competition routes for climbers to preview, resulting in an unfair advantage. Therefore, all electronics with internet connection are not allowed. An iPod without internet capability is allowed for warming up, but you are forbidden from listening to music while you are climbing the competition routes. I guess this sentence should be obvious, but no walkie talkies, cans on a string, smoke signals, etc." There's also parents who get internet-free music devices for their kids. I've even heard of a kid who could take an old iPod Shuffle with them to a "no screen" camp, as it has no screen.
phire 1y ago
Most people don't consider listening to music on your phone to count as "Screen Time".

sippeangelo 1y ago

iPod games in all honor, but none of these games beat jailbreaking your 1st gen iPod nano, dual-booting whatever OS and playing the Half-Life 1 DOOM Wad on it. My only regret in life is exchanging it for the 6th gen when Apple did a recall for some reason.

reaperducer 1y ago

It takes a few minutes to get used to the controls, but Ms. Pac-Man on an iPod Video is quite good.

Razengan 1y ago

I'm still salty that the Special Edition versions of Monkey Island that I purchased on iPad like 10 years ago can't be played anymore. They weren't updated and LucasArts pulled the games from the store, which is a damn shame because they were the PERFECT examples of paid-games on iPad that were a great experience on the iPad given the point-&-click nature translating quite well to a tap interface.

kderbe 1y ago
The app I most regret losing in the 64-bit transition is Disney Animated [1]. App Of The Year in 2013, and gone completely a few years later... [1] https://mashable.com/archive/disney-animation-app https://mashable.com/archive/disney-animation-app
xenophonf 1y ago
I'm really mad at Half Brick for killing classic Fruit Ninja. I actually spent money on that game and on Jetpack Joyride, only to lose both sets of purchases. They suck.

Dathuil 1y ago

I remember being on a plane as a kid and seeing someone playing sonic on their ipod video across the aisle and my mind being blown. I assumed it was some sort of jailbreak that loaded the games on. I had no idea they were an actually supported feature!

darknavi 1y ago
GBC games were awesome to play on jailbroken iPod Video!

fidotron 1y ago

The security around developing these things pre launch was a bit hilarious, even compared to later mobile devices/tablets. A few of the members of one team I worked on were instructed to bring their passports to work in the months running up to any expected announcement, and when notified they would be dispatched to a basement in Cupertino with laptops with self contained build environments (a major headache) to produce the game, which would then appear on stage. We've largely forgotten what a strangely big deal iPod launches used to be. I remember being mildly amused/amazed by the fact you could see them announced online and in use on the London Underground within hours.

q3k 1y ago
Ooh, I have a lot of questions if you're willing to answer them :). I've been reverse engineering the original iPod software for the iPod Nanos for some time now, and I've seen the interface to 'eApps' (what they seem to call loadable applications) from the OS point of view [1], but I've always wondered about the app developer experience. What was the SDK/toolchain like? Did you have any way to test the software in an emulator/simulator on a PC? What was debugging like? Was the iPod software/hardware you were developing against in any way special? [1] - IIRC after the binary is decrypted, loaded into memory at a fixed address, and a symbol table (based on numeric IDs, not strings) is used to populate a trampoline with function pointers that the app requested. There seems to be no privilege separation between the app and the rest of the OS, as is the case for the iPod software in general.
- fidotron 1y ago
  TBH had I known too many of the specifics of the platform by now they would be forgotten or I wouldn't be able to mention them! These games were largely heavily derived from their Brew/WinMo/Symbian versions, which were (subset of) C++ games developed on PCs and then retargeted to embedded devices using compilers with annoying licensing servers. Almost everyone that did this enough had their own PC runtime, and would barely touch any device/platform specific emulator even if it existed, a situation that remained the case until Unreal/Unity took over. > There seems to be no privilege separation between the app and the rest of the OS, as is the case for the iPod software in general. This was/is common for most RTOS type environments where MMUs were not a thing. For example, the whole point of Brew and J2ME was to provide some level of separation prior to the later Symbians and then Android/iOS etc.

nanna 1y ago

Any chance to install these games on Rockbox?

q3k 1y ago
Technically doable but you'd have to put in a bunch of effort (effectively reimplement the stock OS's API surface, which includes OpenGL for later devices). I also think these games are still not decrypted - some previous ones were, but the methodology was not made public. The decryption routine in the devices I've looked at is obfuscated, so it might be easier to modify the firmware to save decrypted blobs than reimplement it.

adamrezich 1y ago

Phase was such a cool game! I spent a lot of time playing it in high school, both with my music library and with music my friends and I made. Only a couple years ago would I learn that Jon Blow was one of its programmers! https://www.mobygames.com/game/30917/phase/credits/ipod-classic/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/30917/phase/credits/ipod-clas...

Pfhortune 1y ago

Finally! I can play Peggle with a wheel again, as god intended! I really have to applaud the preservers on this one. The installation method is really quite clever! I had thought these games lost forever due to DRM, but happy to get to play them again, even with the bizarre controls!