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Our driving test standards are also high, having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). T

Our driving test standards are also high, having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). The theory test you must pass before taking your practical also now includes a hazard perception test - you are shown multiple videos and must click when you first perceive a hazard - the earlier you click after the hazard presents the higher your score - but if you just click randomly you get a zero. Some of them are tricky - for instance, one I remember is a van coming from a side road at too fast a speed, but you can only first see this hazard forming in a reflection of a shop window.

keyringlight 1y ago
Then you get the two wheeled side of the fence. You can do a one day compulsory basic training course and convince a trainer you know what you're doing, then drive on the road with everyone on a 125cc motorcycle (or 50cc at 16 years old), and then repeat the CBT every two years to keep on the road. It's only if you go for the full license that you need to study for theory as a prerequisite, so long as you keep out of trouble.
- michaelt 1y ago
  You make it sound like motorbike riders are practically unregulated, but in a sense it's the opposite. A few decades ago, 125cc bikes were mostly for learners practising before taking their test. But successive governments have made it harder and harder to get a full license - so loads of riders just stay on learner bikes forever. So the status quo is, in a sense, the result of very strict regulation.
  - Neil44 1y ago
    It's the Deliveroo, Just Eat etc crowd too. CBT and off you go. No incentive for further training.
    - cjrp 1y ago
      Yep. They should re-think allowing people to work with just a CBT, but I guess they don't want to stop people from having a job.
    - webdevver 1y ago
      driving instructors told me they get indians straight up offering to buy CBTs with cash lol.
  - webdevver 1y ago
    getting a full motorbike license is also expensive. there's a chicken and egg problem, which is that for an unrestricted license you must do the Mod1 and Mod2 on a 600cc bike or greater, which ofcourse you're not allowed to ride if you're on a CBT. so you have to pay a school, and itll cost in total probably £1k or a bit more. when i did it, the guys also told me, there's basically only one company now that provides insurance for instructors/riding schools. motorbiking i think is becoming less of a guy thing and more like skiing - an expensive, occasional thrill, but very much an upmarket upper-middle-class type of activity. there were more girls than guys at my lessons too, which was pretty surprising at first, but not really once you consider the prior. which was very much at odds with the instructors, who were all guys' guys - when they got into it at 16, motorbiking was much cheaper than a car, and had a real economic argument to make (it was much cheaper all-round) - today, if you add up the insurance, protective gear, bike, and school money, you will be on-par with a car, which is far more practical.
  - panick21_ 1y ago
    The regulation I want for motorbikes is less noise. Its absolutely absurd what is allowed in most places. And if you modify the bike to make more noise you should never be allowed to drive again.
- Neil44 1y ago
  I did my CBT a few months ago after driving for 30 years. It was harder than I assumed it would be. But what scared me the most was the 18 year old who did his at the same time, never driven on the road before. The phrase organ donor seemed appropriate, as mcarbre as it sounds.
  - tengwar2 1y ago
    It's Compulsory Basic Training. Of course he hadn't been on the road before.
dotwaffle 1y ago
> also now includes a hazard perception test I took my test nearly 25 years ago, and this was present then -- for the avoidance of doubt, the UK test has always been very thorough, though not quite as thorough as those in places like Finland where apparently they have skid pans and similar!
- bigfudge 1y ago
  Interestingly, I saw data from a road safety programme for young people that showed skid pan training actually made young men less safe not more, because they became even more overconfident about their ability to “react quickly” if bad things happened. Turns out that a bit of humility and slowing down are the main skills needed to avoid accidents!
  - hnlmorg 1y ago
    I’d imagine that differs from county to country. For example the risks of skidding might be higher in Finland due to the colder climate. Whereas in the UK, black ice isn’t as common so days when it’s icy, the best advice is just to take it slow and stick to salted routes.
  - ninalanyon 1y ago
    That's true, on the other hand it made young women safer. This happened in Norway when the skid pan was made a compulsory part of the course a couple of decades ago and the insurance companies soon noticed an increase in reckless driving among young men but the opposite in young women.
    - throwaway2037 1y ago
      > an increase in reckless driving among young men but the opposite in young women This is fascinating. Does anyone know the root cause here?
      - ninalanyon 1y ago
        The usual 'explanation' is that young men had fun on the skid pan and came to no harm there and wanted to continue having fun on the road while young women discovered how little control they had of the car and hence became more cautious.
zumu 1y ago
> having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). You know, it does vary but relative to any other developed country it's pitiful in every state. The reality is we just hand out driver's licenses to whomever.
silisili 1y ago
I live in the US in a town with particularly bad drivers. I know I know, everyone's area has the worst drivers. But I've lived in dozen cities across the US so have some frame of reference. The sad thing is, it's a small town with what -should- be little traffic. It's one of those places there will only be 2 other cars in sight, but they're driving side by side and 10 under the speed limit. And for some reason, everyone seems to just hold down their brake pedal at all times so you can never tell when they're actually slowing. I presume they're driving an automatic with two feet and keep just enough pressure to trigger the brakelights. And everyone, even the Kia Rios, drives in the opposite lane before turning so they can swing wide like a semi. I could go on and on but I digress. Anyways, it had been an enigma to me for the last few years since I moved here, until one day I was asked to take a lady to her driving test. Sure, why not. The entirety of the 5 minute road test was turning out right onto a sparsely populated 2 lane highway, driving anxiously at 35 in a 55 for a mile or so, then turning around and coming back. Passed. Suddenly, everything made more sense to me. And I'm sure this isn't probably even the easiest test nationally, just one I became familiar with recently. So yeah, we have absolutely no driving standards.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  Wow - if it's a driving test that lets you drive anywhere in the States, then you'd think it'd be a national standard with set manoeuvres and situations to cover.
- spacedcowboy 1y ago
  Can confirm that 6 right turns from getting into the car, comprising a single trip around the block was the full extent of my San Jose, CA driving test. I left the DMV office significantly more scared of my fellow drivers than I had arrived…
- foxyv 1y ago
  I'll take granny driving over crazy driving any day. 35 in a 55 is infinitely preferable to 75 in a 55. Which is what I usually see.
devnullbrain 1y ago
I haven't driven in other countries but from my experience I'm not sure this is translating to good driving on the road.
- jajko 1y ago
  It covers some, lets say non-beginner situations that are pretty real and can make a difference between OK situation and multiple fatalities crash. A junior driver can still kill people as easily as anybody else, standards should be high. And you should certainly drive in other countries, namely much worse and much better than yours (presumably US), they are both out there.
  - devnullbrain 1y ago
    UK, FYI
physicsguy 1y ago
“now includes” It has done for nearly 25 years at this point ;)
euroderf 1y ago
In New York state, virtually EVERYONE fails their first driving test. Rare exceptions. Second test pass is standard. I kind of assumed every state does this.
CM30 1y ago
This is probably a huge factor for sure. Both the UK theory and practical tests are somewhat tricky, at least compared to those in places like the US. Many people will fail them the first time around, and a fair few will fail them multiple times. The official statistics have a rate of about 40-60% for these tests: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/driving-test-and-theory-test-data-cars https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/driving-... Though it definitely varies by area: https://www.gocompare.com/motoring/reports-statistics/driving-tests-uk/ https://www.gocompare.com/motoring/reports-statistics/drivin... It's closer to a school exam in terms of difficulty, rather than the quick drive around a parking lot that it seems a lot of places have. So people seem a lot more prepared than in many other places, since they actually have to be able to spot hazards and do driving maneuvers to get their license in the first place.

keyringlight 1y ago

Then you get the two wheeled side of the fence. You can do a one day compulsory basic training course and convince a trainer you know what you're doing, then drive on the road with everyone on a 125cc motorcycle (or 50cc at 16 years old), and then repeat the CBT every two years to keep on the road. It's only if you go for the full license that you need to study for theory as a prerequisite, so long as you keep out of trouble.

michaelt 1y ago
You make it sound like motorbike riders are practically unregulated, but in a sense it's the opposite. A few decades ago, 125cc bikes were mostly for learners practising before taking their test. But successive governments have made it harder and harder to get a full license - so loads of riders just stay on learner bikes forever. So the status quo is, in a sense, the result of very strict regulation.
- Neil44 1y ago
  It's the Deliveroo, Just Eat etc crowd too. CBT and off you go. No incentive for further training.
  - cjrp 1y ago
    Yep. They should re-think allowing people to work with just a CBT, but I guess they don't want to stop people from having a job.
  - webdevver 1y ago
    driving instructors told me they get indians straight up offering to buy CBTs with cash lol.
- webdevver 1y ago
  getting a full motorbike license is also expensive. there's a chicken and egg problem, which is that for an unrestricted license you must do the Mod1 and Mod2 on a 600cc bike or greater, which ofcourse you're not allowed to ride if you're on a CBT. so you have to pay a school, and itll cost in total probably £1k or a bit more. when i did it, the guys also told me, there's basically only one company now that provides insurance for instructors/riding schools. motorbiking i think is becoming less of a guy thing and more like skiing - an expensive, occasional thrill, but very much an upmarket upper-middle-class type of activity. there were more girls than guys at my lessons too, which was pretty surprising at first, but not really once you consider the prior. which was very much at odds with the instructors, who were all guys' guys - when they got into it at 16, motorbiking was much cheaper than a car, and had a real economic argument to make (it was much cheaper all-round) - today, if you add up the insurance, protective gear, bike, and school money, you will be on-par with a car, which is far more practical.
- panick21_ 1y ago
  The regulation I want for motorbikes is less noise. Its absolutely absurd what is allowed in most places. And if you modify the bike to make more noise you should never be allowed to drive again.
Neil44 1y ago
I did my CBT a few months ago after driving for 30 years. It was harder than I assumed it would be. But what scared me the most was the 18 year old who did his at the same time, never driven on the road before. The phrase organ donor seemed appropriate, as mcarbre as it sounds.
- tengwar2 1y ago
  It's Compulsory Basic Training. Of course he hadn't been on the road before.

dotwaffle 1y ago

> also now includes a hazard perception test I took my test nearly 25 years ago, and this was present then -- for the avoidance of doubt, the UK test has always been very thorough, though not quite as thorough as those in places like Finland where apparently they have skid pans and similar!

bigfudge 1y ago
Interestingly, I saw data from a road safety programme for young people that showed skid pan training actually made young men less safe not more, because they became even more overconfident about their ability to “react quickly” if bad things happened. Turns out that a bit of humility and slowing down are the main skills needed to avoid accidents!
- hnlmorg 1y ago
  I’d imagine that differs from county to country. For example the risks of skidding might be higher in Finland due to the colder climate. Whereas in the UK, black ice isn’t as common so days when it’s icy, the best advice is just to take it slow and stick to salted routes.
- ninalanyon 1y ago
  That's true, on the other hand it made young women safer. This happened in Norway when the skid pan was made a compulsory part of the course a couple of decades ago and the insurance companies soon noticed an increase in reckless driving among young men but the opposite in young women.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    > an increase in reckless driving among young men but the opposite in young women This is fascinating. Does anyone know the root cause here?
    - ninalanyon 1y ago
      The usual 'explanation' is that young men had fun on the skid pan and came to no harm there and wanted to continue having fun on the road while young women discovered how little control they had of the car and hence became more cautious.

zumu 1y ago

> having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). You know, it does vary but relative to any other developed country it's pitiful in every state. The reality is we just hand out driver's licenses to whomever.

silisili 1y ago

I live in the US in a town with particularly bad drivers. I know I know, everyone's area has the worst drivers. But I've lived in dozen cities across the US so have some frame of reference. The sad thing is, it's a small town with what -should- be little traffic. It's one of those places there will only be 2 other cars in sight, but they're driving side by side and 10 under the speed limit. And for some reason, everyone seems to just hold down their brake pedal at all times so you can never tell when they're actually slowing. I presume they're driving an automatic with two feet and keep just enough pressure to trigger the brakelights. And everyone, even the Kia Rios, drives in the opposite lane before turning so they can swing wide like a semi. I could go on and on but I digress. Anyways, it had been an enigma to me for the last few years since I moved here, until one day I was asked to take a lady to her driving test. Sure, why not. The entirety of the 5 minute road test was turning out right onto a sparsely populated 2 lane highway, driving anxiously at 35 in a 55 for a mile or so, then turning around and coming back. Passed. Suddenly, everything made more sense to me. And I'm sure this isn't probably even the easiest test nationally, just one I became familiar with recently. So yeah, we have absolutely no driving standards.

robertlagrant 1y ago
Wow - if it's a driving test that lets you drive anywhere in the States, then you'd think it'd be a national standard with set manoeuvres and situations to cover.
spacedcowboy 1y ago
Can confirm that 6 right turns from getting into the car, comprising a single trip around the block was the full extent of my San Jose, CA driving test. I left the DMV office significantly more scared of my fellow drivers than I had arrived…
foxyv 1y ago
I'll take granny driving over crazy driving any day. 35 in a 55 is infinitely preferable to 75 in a 55. Which is what I usually see.

devnullbrain 1y ago

I haven't driven in other countries but from my experience I'm not sure this is translating to good driving on the road.

jajko 1y ago
It covers some, lets say non-beginner situations that are pretty real and can make a difference between OK situation and multiple fatalities crash. A junior driver can still kill people as easily as anybody else, standards should be high. And you should certainly drive in other countries, namely much worse and much better than yours (presumably US), they are both out there.
- devnullbrain 1y ago
  UK, FYI

physicsguy 1y ago

“now includes” It has done for nearly 25 years at this point ;)

euroderf 1y ago

In New York state, virtually EVERYONE fails their first driving test. Rare exceptions. Second test pass is standard. I kind of assumed every state does this.

CM30 1y ago

This is probably a huge factor for sure. Both the UK theory and practical tests are somewhat tricky, at least compared to those in places like the US. Many people will fail them the first time around, and a fair few will fail them multiple times. The official statistics have a rate of about 40-60% for these tests: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/driving-test-and-theory-test-data-cars https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/driving-... Though it definitely varies by area: https://www.gocompare.com/motoring/reports-statistics/driving-tests-uk/ https://www.gocompare.com/motoring/reports-statistics/drivin... It's closer to a school exam in terms of difficulty, rather than the quick drive around a parking lot that it seems a lot of places have. So people seem a lot more prepared than in many other places, since they actually have to be able to spot hazards and do driving maneuvers to get their license in the first place.