4 ms·

Negative take: Vendor lock-in Positive take: discourage theft; not only is the device locked down / encrypted and you can't just wipe / reinstall it, you can't

Negative take: Vendor lock-in Positive take: discourage theft; not only is the device locked down / encrypted and you can't just wipe / reinstall it, you can't even break it down for parts. When the iphones etc first came out, they were a very attractive target for theft. Come to think of it, that's one reason why I was hesitant to get an iphone back then.

debesyla 1y ago
As the saying goes, is it even theft if you don't own the device? (If you can't do whatever you wish.)
- BoorishBears 1y ago
  Yes, Apple rents me some very powerful hardware that allows me to make a living. Someone depriving me of it is theft.
- jen20 1y ago
  That is a particularly idiotic saying.
- mr_toad 1y ago
  If we want to split hairs, technically it’s robbery, which is more serious than theft. In the UK for example, the maximum sentence for robbery is life imprisonment.
deepsun 1y ago
Theft of what, sorry not clear. Thieves keep stealing macbooks no prob.
arcane23 1y ago
>discourage theft Does it though? Are there statistics that clearly show devices aren't being stolen anymore because they cannot monetize them anymore? The way I see it the only thing this does is make you feel better the thief cannot monetize it, or use it, but it does nothing to prevent the theft which is really a moot point in the grand scheme of things. We end up paying in this way, of not having the freedom to easily and cheaply replace parts, while being comforted that even though they still are getting stolen from us, whoever steals them cannot use/monetize them. Which is quite primitive in a sense, and I do not think it's worth it. But that's just me.
- phoronixrly 1y ago
  Yeah, imagine a world where people who are forced to steal are competent enough not only to know which phones they can sell, but to be able to guess the make and model in the middle of a mugging
  - reaperducer 1y ago
    imagine a world where people who are forced to steal are competent enough not only to know which phones they can sell, but to be able to guess the make and model in the middle of a mugging No need to imagine. This actually happens with watches. In Hong Kong (and likely other cities), you can pick a watch from a "catalog" that is a binder of photos of watches on people's wrists in public, and the middleman will have the watch custom-stolen for you.
    - aspenmayer 1y ago
      Part of me believes this is true. The other part suspects this is a fancy way to sell custom fakes with no refunds.
  - seventhtiger 1y ago
    They actually do though. First thing to learn when swiping is what's worth swiping, and if no one will buy an iphone paper weight then it's not worth the risk.
    - jajuuka 1y ago
      Yeah it's like saying "home invaders don't know if there is anything good inside they just choose houses at random." The point of the theft is to get something out of it.
      - nwallin 1y ago
        I've thankfully never had my house robbed, or a cell phone or laptop stolen. I have had my car broken into. The thieves chucked a paving stone through the window, grabbed a backpack sitting on the passenger's seat, and ran off with it. Left the paving stone in the driver's seat. The backpack had my gym clothes in it. A T-shirt I was rather fond of, a pair of shorts, a few extra pairs of socks, and a shitty pair of sneakers, all were well worn. Replacing the backpack and gym clothes was probably $100, market value was maybe $10, and it was $507 to fix the window. (my deductible was $500.)
dwood_dev 1y ago
I used to have an extremely negative view on all this serial number pairing that Apple does, then I found out why. Within mainland China, Apple was facing fraud of having their devices purchased, stripped for genuine parts, and then rebuilt with knockoffs and sold as new to unsuspecting victims within China or returned. This whole thing that we hate in the west was in response to that fraud. I don't like it at all, but it's not all Apple being assholes.
- AuthAuth 1y ago
  Sounds like more of an excuse than a reason.
  - userbinator 1y ago
    More like plausible deniability.
- zdw 1y ago
  A lot of "new" products in the "bargain" category can have remanufactured parts, even without telling the end users. For example, in this DankPods video he pulls apart two cube speakers, and while they look mostly the same on the outside, one has a Nokia-sized lithium battery that is directly soldered to, and the other has a swollen pouch pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnabYBtJ2I&t=325s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnabYBtJ2I&t=325s Unfortunately end users can't tell whether they got a "race to the bottom" item, so as much as I'd like cheap repairs, it seems like those also come with a huge amount of buyer beware that they may not know about.
- josephcsible 1y ago
  That would be a good argument for Apple showing a warning every time it's powered on or something, but not for it refusing to work altogether.
  - leoh 1y ago
    Yeah, but then you could just flash with a different ROM or something and prevent that warning from being displayed?
2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
They are still a target for theft https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/08/17/the-new-geography-of-stolen-goods https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/08/17/the... > More recently London has become known as the “phone-snatching capital of Europe”. If the victims manage to track their devices, the goods are most likely to turn up in China. > Globalisation created the supply chain that allows each iPhone—assembled from nearly 3,000 components—to reach the hands of a consumer. The same forces inverted see that phone yanked out of it, re-exported and broken apart again.
- seabass-labrax 1y ago
  I wouldn't personally trust the Economist with this kind of thing, at least not compared to publications by technically-minded experts that have been shared elsewhere on this thread, such as the Register. The phone-snatching is real, but the effectiveness of this theft in creating usable spare parts, or of the efficacy Apple's software in reducing said theft, is much harder to determine.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255110862?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255110862?sortBy=rank > Stolen iPhone is in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China; what can I do?
londons_explore 1y ago
Anti-theft isn't the reason. Apple could easily have a dialogue that pops up saying: "The XYZ sensor in this device is still registered to a device attached to robert8 @icloud.com. Please log into that account now to authorize the component swap". Whilst the swap isn't authorised, firmware would power the system off after 10 mins, making any stolen laptop parts useless.
- SchemaLoad 1y ago
  That is how it works as of recently https://support.apple.com/en-au/120610 https://support.apple.com/en-au/120610
commandersaki 1y ago
I read somewhere the angle sensor also has a privacy feature of cutting off microphone at hardware level. This is probably the main reason for parts pairing.
- serf 1y ago
  ... and this can't done with the myriad of other ways a lid can know it's closed.. why? Presumably MacBooks still have a big un-shuttered camera on the screen? Presumably there is still a light sensor? I get the idea of parts pairing as a theft/parts-out deterrent -- I don't get it as a method of cutting features on existing machines. "We need the lid angle sensor to be valuable, so let's cut out our eyes and seal our ears."
  - commandersaki 1y ago
    <shrug> I don't work for Apple and design these things, but for some privacy things they do go to the extreme. I can imagine the scenario where a TLA tries to replace the angle sensor so they can keep the mic open for surveillence reasons, hence why they do parts pairing. https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/web https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...
koiueo 1y ago
> discourage theft Thieves once broke into my car. They stole everything, but then have thrown away things they don't need: which was everything except iPad Pro M1. They have even thrown away an e-ink device which was as expensive. Many signs suggest that the thieves were in an organized group regularly operating in the area, and I'm certain they knew what they were doing. My iPad has never appeared online after the theft according to my iCloud. This was in 2024. I'm confident this iPad didn't just become a paperweight for the organized group of thieves. But it would become a paperweight for me if, say, the infrared camera went off due to a water damage and I wasn't willing to pay Apple a hefty price for the motherboard replacement.
KurSix 1y ago
iPhones were like gold on the black market

debesyla 1y ago

As the saying goes, is it even theft if you don't own the device? (If you can't do whatever you wish.)

BoorishBears 1y ago
Yes, Apple rents me some very powerful hardware that allows me to make a living. Someone depriving me of it is theft.
jen20 1y ago
That is a particularly idiotic saying.
mr_toad 1y ago
If we want to split hairs, technically it’s robbery, which is more serious than theft. In the UK for example, the maximum sentence for robbery is life imprisonment.

deepsun 1y ago

Theft of what, sorry not clear. Thieves keep stealing macbooks no prob.

arcane23 1y ago

>discourage theft Does it though? Are there statistics that clearly show devices aren't being stolen anymore because they cannot monetize them anymore? The way I see it the only thing this does is make you feel better the thief cannot monetize it, or use it, but it does nothing to prevent the theft which is really a moot point in the grand scheme of things. We end up paying in this way, of not having the freedom to easily and cheaply replace parts, while being comforted that even though they still are getting stolen from us, whoever steals them cannot use/monetize them. Which is quite primitive in a sense, and I do not think it's worth it. But that's just me.

phoronixrly 1y ago
Yeah, imagine a world where people who are forced to steal are competent enough not only to know which phones they can sell, but to be able to guess the make and model in the middle of a mugging
- reaperducer 1y ago
  imagine a world where people who are forced to steal are competent enough not only to know which phones they can sell, but to be able to guess the make and model in the middle of a mugging No need to imagine. This actually happens with watches. In Hong Kong (and likely other cities), you can pick a watch from a "catalog" that is a binder of photos of watches on people's wrists in public, and the middleman will have the watch custom-stolen for you.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    Part of me believes this is true. The other part suspects this is a fancy way to sell custom fakes with no refunds.
- seventhtiger 1y ago
  They actually do though. First thing to learn when swiping is what's worth swiping, and if no one will buy an iphone paper weight then it's not worth the risk.
  - jajuuka 1y ago
    Yeah it's like saying "home invaders don't know if there is anything good inside they just choose houses at random." The point of the theft is to get something out of it.
    - nwallin 1y ago
      I've thankfully never had my house robbed, or a cell phone or laptop stolen. I have had my car broken into. The thieves chucked a paving stone through the window, grabbed a backpack sitting on the passenger's seat, and ran off with it. Left the paving stone in the driver's seat. The backpack had my gym clothes in it. A T-shirt I was rather fond of, a pair of shorts, a few extra pairs of socks, and a shitty pair of sneakers, all were well worn. Replacing the backpack and gym clothes was probably $100, market value was maybe $10, and it was $507 to fix the window. (my deductible was $500.)

dwood_dev 1y ago

I used to have an extremely negative view on all this serial number pairing that Apple does, then I found out why. Within mainland China, Apple was facing fraud of having their devices purchased, stripped for genuine parts, and then rebuilt with knockoffs and sold as new to unsuspecting victims within China or returned. This whole thing that we hate in the west was in response to that fraud. I don't like it at all, but it's not all Apple being assholes.

AuthAuth 1y ago
Sounds like more of an excuse than a reason.
- userbinator 1y ago
  More like plausible deniability.
zdw 1y ago
A lot of "new" products in the "bargain" category can have remanufactured parts, even without telling the end users. For example, in this DankPods video he pulls apart two cube speakers, and while they look mostly the same on the outside, one has a Nokia-sized lithium battery that is directly soldered to, and the other has a swollen pouch pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnabYBtJ2I&t=325s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnabYBtJ2I&t=325s Unfortunately end users can't tell whether they got a "race to the bottom" item, so as much as I'd like cheap repairs, it seems like those also come with a huge amount of buyer beware that they may not know about.
josephcsible 1y ago
That would be a good argument for Apple showing a warning every time it's powered on or something, but not for it refusing to work altogether.
- leoh 1y ago
  Yeah, but then you could just flash with a different ROM or something and prevent that warning from being displayed?

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago

They are still a target for theft https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/08/17/the-new-geography-of-stolen-goods https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/08/17/the... > More recently London has become known as the “phone-snatching capital of Europe”. If the victims manage to track their devices, the goods are most likely to turn up in China. > Globalisation created the supply chain that allows each iPhone—assembled from nearly 3,000 components—to reach the hands of a consumer. The same forces inverted see that phone yanked out of it, re-exported and broken apart again.

seabass-labrax 1y ago
I wouldn't personally trust the Economist with this kind of thing, at least not compared to publications by technically-minded experts that have been shared elsewhere on this thread, such as the Register. The phone-snatching is real, but the effectiveness of this theft in creating usable spare parts, or of the efficacy Apple's software in reducing said theft, is much harder to determine.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255110862?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255110862?sortBy=rank > Stolen iPhone is in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China; what can I do?

londons_explore 1y ago

Anti-theft isn't the reason. Apple could easily have a dialogue that pops up saying: "The XYZ sensor in this device is still registered to a device attached to robert8 @icloud.com. Please log into that account now to authorize the component swap". Whilst the swap isn't authorised, firmware would power the system off after 10 mins, making any stolen laptop parts useless.

SchemaLoad 1y ago
That is how it works as of recently https://support.apple.com/en-au/120610 https://support.apple.com/en-au/120610

commandersaki 1y ago

I read somewhere the angle sensor also has a privacy feature of cutting off microphone at hardware level. This is probably the main reason for parts pairing.

serf 1y ago
... and this can't done with the myriad of other ways a lid can know it's closed.. why? Presumably MacBooks still have a big un-shuttered camera on the screen? Presumably there is still a light sensor? I get the idea of parts pairing as a theft/parts-out deterrent -- I don't get it as a method of cutting features on existing machines. "We need the lid angle sensor to be valuable, so let's cut out our eyes and seal our ears."
- commandersaki 1y ago
  <shrug> I don't work for Apple and design these things, but for some privacy things they do go to the extreme. I can imagine the scenario where a TLA tries to replace the angle sensor so they can keep the mic open for surveillence reasons, hence why they do parts pairing. https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/web https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

koiueo 1y ago

> discourage theft Thieves once broke into my car. They stole everything, but then have thrown away things they don't need: which was everything except iPad Pro M1. They have even thrown away an e-ink device which was as expensive. Many signs suggest that the thieves were in an organized group regularly operating in the area, and I'm certain they knew what they were doing. My iPad has never appeared online after the theft according to my iCloud. This was in 2024. I'm confident this iPad didn't just become a paperweight for the organized group of thieves. But it would become a paperweight for me if, say, the infrared camera went off due to a water damage and I wasn't willing to pay Apple a hefty price for the motherboard replacement.

KurSix 1y ago

iPhones were like gold on the black market