4 ms·

> The issue is, what else do you expect people to do? At the very least, vote for politicians actually taking the myriad of issues seriously. Millions of Ameri

> The issue is, what else do you expect people to do? At the very least, vote for politicians actually taking the myriad of issues seriously. Millions of Americans couldn't be bothered to do even that bare minimum in 2024, despite knowing what shitshow the first Trump term was. And no, voter suppression isn't an excuse, the Democrats lost more votes from 2020-2024 than Trump gained. And it's not just the federal elections where votes and engagement can and do make a difference. The book bans? Passed by school boards (crazy enough these are a thing in the first place, most other countries run that through regular civilian administration). That nutjob sheriff Arpaio? Voted and confirmed by locals. You get the point - the far-right has done local legwork and voting for decades. And finally: stay informed about what is going on, so when Uncle John goes off on his usual tirades at family gatherings after a few beers, you can recognize what the lies are and call the lies out.

lazide 1y ago
There are zero politicians in the last 10 years (that I could see) that were actually taking the issue seriously. Some a little more seriously yes, but there is zero chance what Democrats have been doing would solve any of the problems that have been mentioned. And notably, they also couldn't defend the constitution when it came time. So it's a choice between 'delusional-we're-doing-good-everything-is-fine' and 'delusional-lets-not-look-up-and-blame-everyone-else'. The first group continuing to apply pressure in this non-working direction just made the second group inevitable. Pretending people aren't people, and don't have their own reasons why they voted the way they did is exactly what led to the current situation. It's the pendulum swinging. Now we'll get 'people can only be their worst (except me), punish them, regardless of the evidence'. Or as the old quote goes - "Democracy is the idea that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it - good and hard."
- mschuster91 1y ago
  I'd classify Sanders as one of the reasonable ones, as well as AOC. The problem with the Democrats is that they - especially on the local level - don't have that many young people running for them, so it's mostly old people...
  - lazide 1y ago
    Both are good at pointing out flaws in the current plan of the day, but neither of them have viable plans of their own that I have seen (as in actually implementable).
    - mschuster91 1y ago
      Even if they have only small steps to offer, it's still better to walk these now than wait for years and years for a masterplan, while the destructive authoritarian forces keep marching on into the past.
      - lazide 1y ago
        If the small steps keep people from making actual change because ‘i’m doing my part!’ while accomplishing nothing? I disagree. Or do you think those straw bans actually helped, or just let people think they were helping by doing actually nothing? And how do you think all those people feel who spent decades faithfully sorting recycling who finally figured out it was all a scam and 90% of it just went into the same hole in the ground shortly after? I’m not saying I have some better master alternative - rather there is a reason the pendulum swings.
        ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
        > If the small steps keep people from making actual change because ‘i’m doing my part!’ while accomplishing nothing? I've heard this before, is there any evidence it's a thing?

lazide 1y ago

There are zero politicians in the last 10 years (that I could see) that were actually taking the issue seriously. Some a little more seriously yes, but there is zero chance what Democrats have been doing would solve any of the problems that have been mentioned. And notably, they also couldn't defend the constitution when it came time. So it's a choice between 'delusional-we're-doing-good-everything-is-fine' and 'delusional-lets-not-look-up-and-blame-everyone-else'. The first group continuing to apply pressure in this non-working direction just made the second group inevitable. Pretending people aren't people, and don't have their own reasons why they voted the way they did is exactly what led to the current situation. It's the pendulum swinging. Now we'll get 'people can only be their worst (except me), punish them, regardless of the evidence'. Or as the old quote goes - "Democracy is the idea that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it - good and hard."

mschuster91 1y ago
I'd classify Sanders as one of the reasonable ones, as well as AOC. The problem with the Democrats is that they - especially on the local level - don't have that many young people running for them, so it's mostly old people...
- lazide 1y ago
  Both are good at pointing out flaws in the current plan of the day, but neither of them have viable plans of their own that I have seen (as in actually implementable).
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    Even if they have only small steps to offer, it's still better to walk these now than wait for years and years for a masterplan, while the destructive authoritarian forces keep marching on into the past.
    - lazide 1y ago
      If the small steps keep people from making actual change because ‘i’m doing my part!’ while accomplishing nothing? I disagree. Or do you think those straw bans actually helped, or just let people think they were helping by doing actually nothing? And how do you think all those people feel who spent decades faithfully sorting recycling who finally figured out it was all a scam and 90% of it just went into the same hole in the ground shortly after? I’m not saying I have some better master alternative - rather there is a reason the pendulum swings.
      - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
        > If the small steps keep people from making actual change because ‘i’m doing my part!’ while accomplishing nothing? I've heard this before, is there any evidence it's a thing?