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If 80% of postal traffic was commercial and just being used to not pay duty/tariffs, then the tariffs are achieving what was intended. I don’t like the broad a

If 80% of postal traffic was commercial and just being used to not pay duty/tariffs, then the tariffs are achieving what was intended. I don’t like the broad application of tariffs that is implemented today. They should have been better targeted. But this is one area where they are achieving what was intended.

maxerickson 1y ago
Prior to the across the board tariffs, there mostly weren't tariffs to avoid. The de minimus exception was for the administrative overhead rather than any tax.
nothercastle 1y ago
In think a lot of those good are simply not flowing anymore. Suddenly a bunch a products are from companies around the world are no longer viable to sell until current stock is purged and the price of everything goes up. A lot of vendors are still locked in with pre-tarrif pricing to big box stores so all of them need to go bankrupt before the full price increase takes effect.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  EU did this years ago when they started applying VAT on small packages. You can still easily buy as much Chinese stuff as you lik, though. Chaos and uncertainty seem like a much bigger issue in the US than forcing foreign retailers to compete on an even footing with local sellers.
  - swasheck 1y ago
    chaos and uncertainty are the result of what appears to be fundamental ignorance of how complex economic systems work. policies are being drafted and executed based on a cursory understanding of how things work, and undergirded by barely-suppressed racism.
    - dboreham 1y ago
      Chaos and uncertainty are a feature not a bug.
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    A VAT is specifically designed to try and distort the market less (by taxing the value added at each step). With a tariff the whole point in the distortion, the goal is to make the imported goods less competitive.
ghaff 1y ago
There is probably a subset of people here who ordered consumer goods from Alibaba or wherever but I literally couldn't tell you the last time I ordered something (directly) from somewhere international.
watwut 1y ago
It was used to buy stuff from abroad. Now, selling the stuff to USA requires the seller to pay US tax on behalf of the American citizen to US government and then take that tax back from the American citizen. It is ridiculous. And also, if you are buying/selling low amounts and there is an intentional legal rule that says "small mounts are not taxed", then you are not avoiding anything nor using a loophole. You are legitimately buying a Canadian or Mexican item.
- 4ndrewl 1y ago
  Surely it's "the Mexicans" that are going to pay the tariffs? /s
croes 1y ago
Postal traffic doesn’t mean no tariffs or duty, it just means it was shipped from outside the US. But now it’s an unknown risk to ship because you don’t know if the tariffs you calculated when you send the package are the same as when it arrives. Get used to empty shelves and less choices at a higher price. Lose-Lose-Lose
kaitai 1y ago
Don't worry, it also hits birthday cards from my cousins, Christmas presents from my siblings, care packages with those favorite candies and coffees that aren't sold in the US. My sibling can't send me hand-knit items or hand-me-down kids items, items truly of de minimis monetary value. It may be accomplishing what was intended -- but I don't think that people in the US (even those paying attention) understand what was intended. The lack of clarity in terms of regulations and collection of fees/tariffs show that it is not about efficiently collecting the $ but instead about breaking the chain of goods, from big business to small business to family ties, and cutting off flow to the USPS, supporting the privatization of the entity. I agree that the de minimis exemption was being abused at scale. I'm also salty that my family can't send birthday or Christmas presents, even a home-made card. Whatever you want to say about this administration, always look one level down for the wholesale reconfiguration of supply chain and international connections that they're aiming for.
- swasheck 1y ago
  > It may be accomplishing what was intended -- but I don't think that people in the US (even those paying attention) understand what was intended. this is what i suspect too. most of his common supporters i interact with parrot the “america first will revitalize the economy and job market” and then when that doesnt happen they do the same with “i’m willing to deal with temporary bit of pain in order to ensure american interests are protected.” these comments are almost always framed against the Obama and Biden administrations and never stand on their own merit (e.g. “unlike biden who …”). to be perfectly fair, I’m not entirely sure what the ultimate goal is, though. My perception of the character of the person of the president has been dim for many decades so when it’s something that he champions I immediately chalk it up to something that would serve his own self interest above that of any group of other people
  - dboreham 1y ago
    The goal is to hurt people thereby providing narcissistic supply.
- iwontberude 1y ago
blackguardx 1y ago
The purpose of de minimus is to streamline small shipments, commercial or not. It can't really be abused unless the declared value is false and it is really over $800. If you are taking issue with Temu-like shipments, that is more of a postal treaty issue.
michaelmrose 1y ago
Why would 80% of postal traffic NOT be commercial in a world with phones, video conferencing and email?

maxerickson 1y ago

Prior to the across the board tariffs, there mostly weren't tariffs to avoid. The de minimus exception was for the administrative overhead rather than any tax.

nothercastle 1y ago

In think a lot of those good are simply not flowing anymore. Suddenly a bunch a products are from companies around the world are no longer viable to sell until current stock is purged and the price of everything goes up. A lot of vendors are still locked in with pre-tarrif pricing to big box stores so all of them need to go bankrupt before the full price increase takes effect.

wqaatwt 1y ago
EU did this years ago when they started applying VAT on small packages. You can still easily buy as much Chinese stuff as you lik, though. Chaos and uncertainty seem like a much bigger issue in the US than forcing foreign retailers to compete on an even footing with local sellers.
- swasheck 1y ago
  chaos and uncertainty are the result of what appears to be fundamental ignorance of how complex economic systems work. policies are being drafted and executed based on a cursory understanding of how things work, and undergirded by barely-suppressed racism.
  - dboreham 1y ago
    Chaos and uncertainty are a feature not a bug.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  A VAT is specifically designed to try and distort the market less (by taxing the value added at each step). With a tariff the whole point in the distortion, the goal is to make the imported goods less competitive.

ghaff 1y ago

There is probably a subset of people here who ordered consumer goods from Alibaba or wherever but I literally couldn't tell you the last time I ordered something (directly) from somewhere international.

watwut 1y ago

It was used to buy stuff from abroad. Now, selling the stuff to USA requires the seller to pay US tax on behalf of the American citizen to US government and then take that tax back from the American citizen. It is ridiculous. And also, if you are buying/selling low amounts and there is an intentional legal rule that says "small mounts are not taxed", then you are not avoiding anything nor using a loophole. You are legitimately buying a Canadian or Mexican item.

4ndrewl 1y ago
Surely it's "the Mexicans" that are going to pay the tariffs? /s

croes 1y ago

Postal traffic doesn’t mean no tariffs or duty, it just means it was shipped from outside the US. But now it’s an unknown risk to ship because you don’t know if the tariffs you calculated when you send the package are the same as when it arrives. Get used to empty shelves and less choices at a higher price. Lose-Lose-Lose

kaitai 1y ago

Don't worry, it also hits birthday cards from my cousins, Christmas presents from my siblings, care packages with those favorite candies and coffees that aren't sold in the US. My sibling can't send me hand-knit items or hand-me-down kids items, items truly of de minimis monetary value. It may be accomplishing what was intended -- but I don't think that people in the US (even those paying attention) understand what was intended. The lack of clarity in terms of regulations and collection of fees/tariffs show that it is not about efficiently collecting the $ but instead about breaking the chain of goods, from big business to small business to family ties, and cutting off flow to the USPS, supporting the privatization of the entity. I agree that the de minimis exemption was being abused at scale. I'm also salty that my family can't send birthday or Christmas presents, even a home-made card. Whatever you want to say about this administration, always look one level down for the wholesale reconfiguration of supply chain and international connections that they're aiming for.

swasheck 1y ago
> It may be accomplishing what was intended -- but I don't think that people in the US (even those paying attention) understand what was intended. this is what i suspect too. most of his common supporters i interact with parrot the “america first will revitalize the economy and job market” and then when that doesnt happen they do the same with “i’m willing to deal with temporary bit of pain in order to ensure american interests are protected.” these comments are almost always framed against the Obama and Biden administrations and never stand on their own merit (e.g. “unlike biden who …”). to be perfectly fair, I’m not entirely sure what the ultimate goal is, though. My perception of the character of the person of the president has been dim for many decades so when it’s something that he champions I immediately chalk it up to something that would serve his own self interest above that of any group of other people
- dboreham 1y ago
  The goal is to hurt people thereby providing narcissistic supply.
iwontberude 1y ago

blackguardx 1y ago

The purpose of de minimus is to streamline small shipments, commercial or not. It can't really be abused unless the declared value is false and it is really over $800. If you are taking issue with Temu-like shipments, that is more of a postal treaty issue.

michaelmrose 1y ago

Why would 80% of postal traffic NOT be commercial in a world with phones, video conferencing and email?