5 ms·

I mean, same could be said about South Korea. It would instantly drag their GDP per capita down by more than half, and that's not even counting how much money w

by bfg_9k 1y ago

I mean, same could be said about South Korea. It would instantly drag their GDP per capita down by more than half, and that's not even counting how much money would need to be spent to re-develop NK.

djtango 1y ago
Genuine question that I'm trying to learn about - the industrialisation of Japan and South Korea led to huge wealth creation and increases in quality of living. I know some of that is stagnating now and especially in South Korea things are difficult, but why isn't North Korea ever spoken of in those terms rather than always the GDP hit to South Korea?
alexey-salmin 1y ago
If both counties sustain their current trajectories, in 50 years it will be NK re-populating and re-developing SK. And the "if" here is mainly about NK, chances of SK getting out of the death spiral are very thin.
- the_af 1y ago
  I recently read/watched videos about the "population time bomb" in South Korea and how it's almost irreversible now. It really surprised me, it's one of those things that's hard to visualize. And it's not even long term!
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    They can always allow more immigration. National populations don't grow only by births.
    - the_af 1y ago
      Apparently, due to cultural, political and economical issues, South Korea cannot/won't do this. I suppose it theoretically could, but in practice it would mean it would cease to exist as it is now. Due to the scale of their population collapse, the influx of immigrants would have to be massive. Which country does that? It would completely overtake its native ethnic population... which unlike a country built on immigration like the US, is surprisingly homogeneous. I'm no expert, I encourage you to read on the matter. It apparently truly is something that cannot be stopped now. It surprised me as much as it (apparently) does you. By the way, countries that are better off, like the US, are largely helped by immigration indeed. Which is why anti-immigration policies would be like shooting themselves in the foot.
      - wkat4242 1y ago
        > I suppose it theoretically could, but in practice it would mean it would cease to exist as it is now. But it's going to cease to exist as it is anyway. One way or another. And the people that remain will not be staring at a wall waiting for it to end. Also, young people seem to have a radically different mindset there, which is what tends to happen when they see their parents screwing everything up. Maybe the culture isn't there yet but it will be. Having said that, I would never be happy to live in a country with strict moral codes like Japan or South Korea. But I'm sure many people would be. In particular conservatives tend to love these societies, you often hear comments like "this is what we should do here in the US". I'm a raging pro-lgbt polyamorous kinky progressive so for me it would be the wrong place. But there are lots of people that would love this kind of thing.
        the_af 1y ago
        I mean, I don't know what to tell you. You seem to be reacting in disbelief, "this cannot be true". But reality shows it is happening, it is accelerating, and young people are part of the problem. It's a real thing, and the consensus seems to be it's irreversible, however bizarre it may seem to us.
        wkat4242 1y ago
        I just think life finds a way. Societies don't just disappear. They just change. There's too much value in Korea to just give up. Will it disappear as we know it? Yes. But that is true everywhere. The America as you knew it in 2010 is also gone forever (and not for the better, unfortunately with its current politics). Same in Europe where the nazis are trying to take over. Change is a constant.
        the_af 1y ago
        Life doesn't always find a way. Mass extinctions are a thing. Even human cultures & ethnic groups have disappeared without a trace. The South Korean population time bomb is a completely different thing to America in the 2010 changing. Have you read what people who study demographics currently believe about South Korea. An informed opinion is really needed to discuss this, this is not about "feelings".

by bfg_9k 1y ago

I mean, same could be said about South Korea. It would instantly drag their GDP per capita down by more than half, and that's not even counting how much money would need to be spent to re-develop NK.

djtango 1y ago

Genuine question that I'm trying to learn about - the industrialisation of Japan and South Korea led to huge wealth creation and increases in quality of living. I know some of that is stagnating now and especially in South Korea things are difficult, but why isn't North Korea ever spoken of in those terms rather than always the GDP hit to South Korea?

alexey-salmin 1y ago

If both counties sustain their current trajectories, in 50 years it will be NK re-populating and re-developing SK. And the "if" here is mainly about NK, chances of SK getting out of the death spiral are very thin.

the_af 1y ago
I recently read/watched videos about the "population time bomb" in South Korea and how it's almost irreversible now. It really surprised me, it's one of those things that's hard to visualize. And it's not even long term!
- wkat4242 1y ago
  They can always allow more immigration. National populations don't grow only by births.
  - the_af 1y ago
    Apparently, due to cultural, political and economical issues, South Korea cannot/won't do this. I suppose it theoretically could, but in practice it would mean it would cease to exist as it is now. Due to the scale of their population collapse, the influx of immigrants would have to be massive. Which country does that? It would completely overtake its native ethnic population... which unlike a country built on immigration like the US, is surprisingly homogeneous. I'm no expert, I encourage you to read on the matter. It apparently truly is something that cannot be stopped now. It surprised me as much as it (apparently) does you. By the way, countries that are better off, like the US, are largely helped by immigration indeed. Which is why anti-immigration policies would be like shooting themselves in the foot.
    - wkat4242 1y ago
      > I suppose it theoretically could, but in practice it would mean it would cease to exist as it is now. But it's going to cease to exist as it is anyway. One way or another. And the people that remain will not be staring at a wall waiting for it to end. Also, young people seem to have a radically different mindset there, which is what tends to happen when they see their parents screwing everything up. Maybe the culture isn't there yet but it will be. Having said that, I would never be happy to live in a country with strict moral codes like Japan or South Korea. But I'm sure many people would be. In particular conservatives tend to love these societies, you often hear comments like "this is what we should do here in the US". I'm a raging pro-lgbt polyamorous kinky progressive so for me it would be the wrong place. But there are lots of people that would love this kind of thing.
      - the_af 1y ago
        I mean, I don't know what to tell you. You seem to be reacting in disbelief, "this cannot be true". But reality shows it is happening, it is accelerating, and young people are part of the problem. It's a real thing, and the consensus seems to be it's irreversible, however bizarre it may seem to us.
        wkat4242 1y ago
        I just think life finds a way. Societies don't just disappear. They just change. There's too much value in Korea to just give up. Will it disappear as we know it? Yes. But that is true everywhere. The America as you knew it in 2010 is also gone forever (and not for the better, unfortunately with its current politics). Same in Europe where the nazis are trying to take over. Change is a constant.
        the_af 1y ago
        Life doesn't always find a way. Mass extinctions are a thing. Even human cultures & ethnic groups have disappeared without a trace. The South Korean population time bomb is a completely different thing to America in the 2010 changing. Have you read what people who study demographics currently believe about South Korea. An informed opinion is really needed to discuss this, this is not about "feelings".