11 ms·

I'm not familiar with the specifics of legislation, but surely it must be pretty shoddy if companies are allowed to charge for adapters which are needed to make

by corin_ 14y ago

I'm not familiar with the specifics of legislation, but surely it must be pretty shoddy if companies are allowed to charge for adapters which are needed to make the phone comply with the rule?

panacea 14y ago
I'm not an expert, but yeah, I'm fairly sure these will need to be included in the box for iPhones sold in Europe. Off topic, but the Lightening connector has 8 copper strips, and it's a 9 pin connecter. Presumably, the outer metal strip is the 9th? Does this adapter lessen the capabilities of the connector? I mean, are their legitimate functional requirements that the 9-pin connector addresses beyong the capabilities of a micro-usb? I've seen a comment or two on blogs, but no explanation.
- _djo_ 14y ago
  Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone. So this microUSB adaptor will be usable for charging only. In terms of the legislation that's ok, as it only specifies a common charging format, not a common accessory connector format.
  - panacea 14y ago
    Thanks. Permit me another question, as my Google fu would surely fail me when trying to find the answer amongst the wash of 'its a money grab' 'Apple should just use micro-usb'. Why was the original dock connector 13 pin, and why is 9 pin ok now?
    - _djo_ 14y ago
      The original was 30-pin, the new one is 8-pin. The reason this could happen is that many of the pins in the old dock connector are now legacy and no-longer used. Examples include a number of FireWire interfaces and some iPod-only S-Video and composite outputs. 8 pins were for FireWire alone. Also, the 30-pin's availability of dedicated ports for many functions let accessories connect directly to the inputs and outputs they needed without needing to go through a digital conversion process that would require additional software and require digital processing hardware. So an iPod dock could connect directly to the power and audio out ports, resulting in a simple and reliable circuit design. Now, years later, the cost of processing hardware has dropped massively so it's more feasible for a number of accessories to incorporate digital processing hardware to get the stuff they need from the digital in/out pins rather than needing dedicated pins.
      - panacea 14y ago
        Many thanks! (Apologies to anyone having to scroll past my Q&... appreciated.. A)
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    > Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone I don't think we know this yet, details on the Lightning connector specs are sparse, aside from it being "all-digital" and "adaptive".
    - panacea 14y ago
      This is what I was wondering about. You can do a heck of a lot of different things through a thunderbolt port. You don't need seperate copper pipes/pins for each function... It's not a miniature switchboard, with a bunch of tiny cables plugged into each pin.
      - taligent 14y ago
        Thunderbolt cables have very expensive, somewhat fragile controllers at each end of the cable. The Lightening cables are designed to be cheap, simple and sturdy.
        panacea 14y ago
        Not an answer to the question I asked. You've conflated 'connector sturdiness' with function. A micro-usb plug could be made rugged. Thanks anyway.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    A lot of newer devices that use microUSB supports MHL, which allows for HD video signalling over the microUSB interface, so video / audio is not a good excuse for an incompatible port.
ZeroGravitas 14y ago
I assume in the box you'll get a charging cable that has lightning at one end, and standard USB at the other, which then plugs into a USB charger. The USB charger and cable are then reusable seperately. That's what you get with the current iPhones anyway, and I believe Apple were one of the one's pushing for that to be acceptable under this law, even though it's not really complying with the spirit.
- unwind 14y ago
  I have very little first-hand experience with Apple products, but based on the wording in the EU FAQ linked to above, that assumption is a bit strange. Since the EU "understanding" specifies micro USB, i.e. the connector on the phone, your solution goes completely parallel to this requirement. I don't think it would be said to comply in that case, what if the users have chargers with fixed cables, terminating in micro USB plugs? Then you can't just substitute the Apple cable.

by corin_ 14y ago

I'm not familiar with the specifics of legislation, but surely it must be pretty shoddy if companies are allowed to charge for adapters which are needed to make the phone comply with the rule?

panacea 14y ago

I'm not an expert, but yeah, I'm fairly sure these will need to be included in the box for iPhones sold in Europe. Off topic, but the Lightening connector has 8 copper strips, and it's a 9 pin connecter. Presumably, the outer metal strip is the 9th? Does this adapter lessen the capabilities of the connector? I mean, are their legitimate functional requirements that the 9-pin connector addresses beyong the capabilities of a micro-usb? I've seen a comment or two on blogs, but no explanation.

_djo_ 14y ago
Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone. So this microUSB adaptor will be usable for charging only. In terms of the legislation that's ok, as it only specifies a common charging format, not a common accessory connector format.
- panacea 14y ago
  Thanks. Permit me another question, as my Google fu would surely fail me when trying to find the answer amongst the wash of 'its a money grab' 'Apple should just use micro-usb'. Why was the original dock connector 13 pin, and why is 9 pin ok now?
  - _djo_ 14y ago
    The original was 30-pin, the new one is 8-pin. The reason this could happen is that many of the pins in the old dock connector are now legacy and no-longer used. Examples include a number of FireWire interfaces and some iPod-only S-Video and composite outputs. 8 pins were for FireWire alone. Also, the 30-pin's availability of dedicated ports for many functions let accessories connect directly to the inputs and outputs they needed without needing to go through a digital conversion process that would require additional software and require digital processing hardware. So an iPod dock could connect directly to the power and audio out ports, resulting in a simple and reliable circuit design. Now, years later, the cost of processing hardware has dropped massively so it's more feasible for a number of accessories to incorporate digital processing hardware to get the stuff they need from the digital in/out pins rather than needing dedicated pins.
    - panacea 14y ago
      Many thanks! (Apologies to anyone having to scroll past my Q&... appreciated.. A)
- kalleboo 14y ago
  > Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone I don't think we know this yet, details on the Lightning connector specs are sparse, aside from it being "all-digital" and "adaptive".
  - panacea 14y ago
    This is what I was wondering about. You can do a heck of a lot of different things through a thunderbolt port. You don't need seperate copper pipes/pins for each function... It's not a miniature switchboard, with a bunch of tiny cables plugged into each pin.
    - taligent 14y ago
      Thunderbolt cables have very expensive, somewhat fragile controllers at each end of the cable. The Lightening cables are designed to be cheap, simple and sturdy.
      - panacea 14y ago
        Not an answer to the question I asked. You've conflated 'connector sturdiness' with function. A micro-usb plug could be made rugged. Thanks anyway.
- vidarh 14y ago
  A lot of newer devices that use microUSB supports MHL, which allows for HD video signalling over the microUSB interface, so video / audio is not a good excuse for an incompatible port.

ZeroGravitas 14y ago

I assume in the box you'll get a charging cable that has lightning at one end, and standard USB at the other, which then plugs into a USB charger. The USB charger and cable are then reusable seperately. That's what you get with the current iPhones anyway, and I believe Apple were one of the one's pushing for that to be acceptable under this law, even though it's not really complying with the spirit.

unwind 14y ago
I have very little first-hand experience with Apple products, but based on the wording in the EU FAQ linked to above, that assumption is a bit strange. Since the EU "understanding" specifies micro USB, i.e. the connector on the phone, your solution goes completely parallel to this requirement. I don't think it would be said to comply in that case, what if the users have chargers with fixed cables, terminating in micro USB plugs? Then you can't just substitute the Apple cable.