4 ms·

> 22 year old western hacker for a 3 letter agency is going to have maybe a 6 month softball tangentially related internship of experience under their belt whil

> 22 year old western hacker for a 3 letter agency is going to have maybe a 6 month softball tangentially related internship of experience under their belt while the north korean might have years and years by that point. I was with you right up until this bit The agencies concerned tend to recruit people that have demonstrated ability in that field, and they've usually got it with "self-directed" training :)

Joel_Mckay 1y ago
State sponsored thieves are not a talent pool that anyone wants in a trusted position. The fact is there were only around 40 unique hacks ever invented, and people simply adapt these into new zero day exploits. Notably, this is now mostly a fully automated process. If people want in, they will get in eventually. =3 x C62=:K6 J@F 2C6 AC66>AE:G6=J 5:D28C66:?8 H:E9 E96 DFCAC:D:?8=J =@H 6DE:>2E6 @7 6IA=@:E E2I@?@>J[ 3FE 9F>2? DE2E:DE:42= 3692G:@C :D 2=D@ ?@E 2D 4@>A=6I 2D >2?J 36=:6G6]
- vntok 1y ago
  ChatGPT decoded the ROT47 text immediately from a simple prompt: "Decode this string sent by some random pompous guy on Hacker News: [raw string]". If robots want in, they will get in eventually too, apparently.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    It was a simple way to highlight impulsive behavior common in modern users, and the trivial encoding function should be obvious to those who are minimally empathetic. Ask the LLM handler if being lied to makes people feel worse than getting robbed... then consider if you would hire such individuals. If you are ever unsure of someones motives, than politely ask for context. Have a wonderful day =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Causal_attribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Causa...
    - bgwalter 1y ago
      What is the impulsive behavior? Do you have a zero day in some ROT-47 decoder? Or perhaps a zero day in the file command in case a user creates a file containing the string and runs the command on it? Or is the string both a valid ROT-47 string and a valid executable on some platform? > If you are ever unsure of someones motives, than politely ask for context. Asking for context.
      - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
        In general, the point was predicting statistical behavior is easy in large enough populations, and finding utility in that fact is trivial. Exploits are boring, and thus have questionable utility in a proper business context. Don't worry about it... =3
  - KyleBerezin 1y ago
    No need for insults, I found it fun. ROTs are easy to detect because they usually still have word-length chunks, and common repeating symbols. In this case the '6's ('e's). This is something a language oriented AI is going to be very good at detecting. It's great demo of why hashing is so important. If you don't see repeating symbols, it could be a running key, like a Vigenèr cipher.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/#recipe=ROT47(47)&input=eCBDNjI9Oks2IEpARiAyQzYgQUM2Nj5BRTpHNj1KIDU6RDI4QzY2Oj84IEg6RTkgRTk2IERGQ0FDOkQ6Pzg9SiA9QEggNkRFOj4yRTYgQDcgNklBPUA6RSBFMklAP0A%2BSlsgM0ZFIDlGPjI/IERFMkU6REU6NDI9IDM2OTJHOkBDIDpEIDI9REAgP0BFIDJEIDRAPkE9NkkgMkQgPjI/SiAzNj06Nkc2XQ https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/#recipe=ROT47(47)&input=eCB... CyberChef did it fully locally with a ready-made recipe :D
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > State sponsored thieves are not a talent pool that anyone wants in a trusted position Why? They’re intelligent, crafty and able to make trade-offs. Empirically, ex-spies have a solid history in reaching commanding positions in politics and business.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    It is complicated, but Moral Development theory does cover the phenomena of why some won't understand until they personally grow through the stages of development. Have a great day. =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_...
    - jgilias 1y ago
      Reading up on it made me realize that a certain well known orange person is really on Stage 2 of moral development. That explains a lot. But also gives hope. I mean, it’s rare that adults fail to advance from pre-conventional phases, so it must be super rare to have such a confluence of factors that puts someone like that in the given job.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      Spies do tough work for not that much pay. (Certainly less than they can earn in the private sector.) They’re starting from a position of duty. Given the stakes the questions they’re tasked with operate at, I’d guess they tend to be in the postconventional regime more than most people.
      - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
        Sounds like an absurd fiction... and still unrelated to a proper business. =3
  - Ray20 1y ago
    > Empirically, ex-spies have a solid history in reaching commanding positions in politics and business. But it's not because someone wants them there. It's because they can demand the position they want.
asdff 1y ago
Lurking forums and irc is probably a terrible way to train a hacker than a dedicated program that introduces you to the tools you'd be using on the job right away. Even today people don't even like hiring self taught engineers anymore like 20 years ago, when there are many more people today who have gone through legitimate education programs. The one hacker I met in my life went to West Point and had no experience they didn't gain from being placed in their program after graduating with decent test scores.

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

State sponsored thieves are not a talent pool that anyone wants in a trusted position. The fact is there were only around 40 unique hacks ever invented, and people simply adapt these into new zero day exploits. Notably, this is now mostly a fully automated process. If people want in, they will get in eventually. =3 x C62=:K6 J@F 2C6 AC66>AE:G6=J 5:D28C66:?8 H:E9 E96 DFCAC:D:?8=J =@H 6DE:>2E6 @7 6IA=@:E E2I@?@>J[ 3FE 9F>2? DE2E:DE:42= 3692G:@C :D 2=D@ ?@E 2D 4@>A=6I 2D >2?J 36=:6G6]

vntok 1y ago
ChatGPT decoded the ROT47 text immediately from a simple prompt: "Decode this string sent by some random pompous guy on Hacker News: [raw string]". If robots want in, they will get in eventually too, apparently.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  It was a simple way to highlight impulsive behavior common in modern users, and the trivial encoding function should be obvious to those who are minimally empathetic. Ask the LLM handler if being lied to makes people feel worse than getting robbed... then consider if you would hire such individuals. If you are ever unsure of someones motives, than politely ask for context. Have a wonderful day =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Causal_attribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Causa...
  - bgwalter 1y ago
    What is the impulsive behavior? Do you have a zero day in some ROT-47 decoder? Or perhaps a zero day in the file command in case a user creates a file containing the string and runs the command on it? Or is the string both a valid ROT-47 string and a valid executable on some platform? > If you are ever unsure of someones motives, than politely ask for context. Asking for context.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
      In general, the point was predicting statistical behavior is easy in large enough populations, and finding utility in that fact is trivial. Exploits are boring, and thus have questionable utility in a proper business context. Don't worry about it... =3
- KyleBerezin 1y ago
  No need for insults, I found it fun. ROTs are easy to detect because they usually still have word-length chunks, and common repeating symbols. In this case the '6's ('e's). This is something a language oriented AI is going to be very good at detecting. It's great demo of why hashing is so important. If you don't see repeating symbols, it could be a running key, like a Vigenèr cipher.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/#recipe=ROT47(47)&input=eCBDNjI9Oks2IEpARiAyQzYgQUM2Nj5BRTpHNj1KIDU6RDI4QzY2Oj84IEg6RTkgRTk2IERGQ0FDOkQ6Pzg9SiA9QEggNkRFOj4yRTYgQDcgNklBPUA6RSBFMklAP0A%2BSlsgM0ZFIDlGPjI/IERFMkU6REU6NDI9IDM2OTJHOkBDIDpEIDI9REAgP0BFIDJEIDRAPkE9NkkgMkQgPjI/SiAzNj06Nkc2XQ https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/#recipe=ROT47(47)&input=eCB... CyberChef did it fully locally with a ready-made recipe :D
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> State sponsored thieves are not a talent pool that anyone wants in a trusted position Why? They’re intelligent, crafty and able to make trade-offs. Empirically, ex-spies have a solid history in reaching commanding positions in politics and business.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  It is complicated, but Moral Development theory does cover the phenomena of why some won't understand until they personally grow through the stages of development. Have a great day. =3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_...
  - jgilias 1y ago
    Reading up on it made me realize that a certain well known orange person is really on Stage 2 of moral development. That explains a lot. But also gives hope. I mean, it’s rare that adults fail to advance from pre-conventional phases, so it must be super rare to have such a confluence of factors that puts someone like that in the given job.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    Spies do tough work for not that much pay. (Certainly less than they can earn in the private sector.) They’re starting from a position of duty. Given the stakes the questions they’re tasked with operate at, I’d guess they tend to be in the postconventional regime more than most people.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
      Sounds like an absurd fiction... and still unrelated to a proper business. =3
- Ray20 1y ago
  > Empirically, ex-spies have a solid history in reaching commanding positions in politics and business. But it's not because someone wants them there. It's because they can demand the position they want.

asdff 1y ago

Lurking forums and irc is probably a terrible way to train a hacker than a dedicated program that introduces you to the tools you'd be using on the job right away. Even today people don't even like hiring self taught engineers anymore like 20 years ago, when there are many more people today who have gone through legitimate education programs. The one hacker I met in my life went to West Point and had no experience they didn't gain from being placed in their program after graduating with decent test scores.