4 ms·

That doesn't matter - it cost a billion dollars to write the current project I work on. There is no way I can ask for that much to rewrite it all in whatever.

That doesn't matter - it cost a billion dollars to write the current project I work on. There is no way I can ask for that much to rewrite it all in whatever. Thus we are stuck on c++ which was the best choice 15 years ago. Anything that makes new code easier to write is great help. sure we are looking at options - but rust and c++ don't interoperate well (c api is too limiting). D was looking interesting for a while but I'm not sure how it fits (d supports c++ abi)

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
60 million dollars a year in development for 15 years? What are you working on?
- goalieca 1y ago
  There are many large projects with ~1000 engineers will end up costing more than that.
- paulddraper 1y ago
  Chrome doesn’t fit those figures exactly but is close.
  - Yoric 1y ago
    ...and some components are being rewritten in Rust, if I recall.
    - steveklabnik 1y ago
      Yep: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45140641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45140641
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Some small parts are. After several decades those small parts will add up but for now rust is almost nothing overall.
- foobar10000 1y ago
  Many large financial operations - HFT such as Hudson River Trading or Optiver or IMC or Citadel, or the big C++ systems in the banks - 200-400 developers working on an ecosystem of components can easily clear that.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Easy to reach these numbers. Many developers never do the math of what their salaries actually cost. We in consulting are deeply aware of the impact mapping hours and days into money, plus license and support costs, and infrastructure. Hence why I dislike all those "I rewrote X into Y", great and how many thousands did that fun endeavour cost to the employer?
- bluGill 1y ago
  The billion was the rewrite, not continued maintenance. So billion over around 7-10 years (the early releases greatly lacked features but some of the features had maintenance work done and additional features added while other parts of the rewrite were in progress). But yes at least 200 developers have worked on the project every year, not to mention a lot of testers and such. this is normal for all the different companies I've worked at. you can perhaps guess based on my comment history but I'm not supposed to state directly.
tialaramex 1y ago
There's an evolutionary process at work, so it's not really about that rewrite decision, it arguably made sense fifteen years ago to pick C++ - yeah C++ will still exist in say 2040 just like COBOL still exists today and I don't trust anybody arguing otherwise. But whether investing in C++ still makes sense is a different question. That might influence career decisions, and what new projects should do even though a choice fifteen years ago was correct, and it also impacts how to manage your existing project. We do these night walks out in the Forest. 2-4 hours in the countryside, when it's still pleasantly warm but no sun. Owls, bats, insects and occasionally horses or deer that were not expecting humans - no sudden moves because horses or deer can easily kill you by mistake if startled. Without much light it's hard to be sure whether you're on a trail and if you've reached the fork you expected or just a place where there's a tree in the way. So, it's not rare to realise we've made a mistake. Now, if you realise after 5 minutes you can "just" backtrack. It's nowhere near as easy in darkness, but it's possible and arguably preferable. However it is also possible to realise after say an hour. You thought you'd be in a clearing, on a ridge, but you're a mile away approaching a river crossing. Oops. It is usually not correct to retrace your steps in this case, you need a new plan taking into account what you know now about your position.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

60 million dollars a year in development for 15 years? What are you working on?

goalieca 1y ago
There are many large projects with ~1000 engineers will end up costing more than that.
paulddraper 1y ago
Chrome doesn’t fit those figures exactly but is close.
- Yoric 1y ago
  ...and some components are being rewritten in Rust, if I recall.
  - steveklabnik 1y ago
    Yep: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45140641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45140641
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Some small parts are. After several decades those small parts will add up but for now rust is almost nothing overall.
foobar10000 1y ago
Many large financial operations - HFT such as Hudson River Trading or Optiver or IMC or Citadel, or the big C++ systems in the banks - 200-400 developers working on an ecosystem of components can easily clear that.
pjmlp 1y ago
Easy to reach these numbers. Many developers never do the math of what their salaries actually cost. We in consulting are deeply aware of the impact mapping hours and days into money, plus license and support costs, and infrastructure. Hence why I dislike all those "I rewrote X into Y", great and how many thousands did that fun endeavour cost to the employer?
bluGill 1y ago
The billion was the rewrite, not continued maintenance. So billion over around 7-10 years (the early releases greatly lacked features but some of the features had maintenance work done and additional features added while other parts of the rewrite were in progress). But yes at least 200 developers have worked on the project every year, not to mention a lot of testers and such. this is normal for all the different companies I've worked at. you can perhaps guess based on my comment history but I'm not supposed to state directly.

tialaramex 1y ago

There's an evolutionary process at work, so it's not really about that rewrite decision, it arguably made sense fifteen years ago to pick C++ - yeah C++ will still exist in say 2040 just like COBOL still exists today and I don't trust anybody arguing otherwise. But whether investing in C++ still makes sense is a different question. That might influence career decisions, and what new projects should do even though a choice fifteen years ago was correct, and it also impacts how to manage your existing project. We do these night walks out in the Forest. 2-4 hours in the countryside, when it's still pleasantly warm but no sun. Owls, bats, insects and occasionally horses or deer that were not expecting humans - no sudden moves because horses or deer can easily kill you by mistake if startled. Without much light it's hard to be sure whether you're on a trail and if you've reached the fork you expected or just a place where there's a tree in the way. So, it's not rare to realise we've made a mistake. Now, if you realise after 5 minutes you can "just" backtrack. It's nowhere near as easy in darkness, but it's possible and arguably preferable. However it is also possible to realise after say an hour. You thought you'd be in a clearing, on a ridge, but you're a mile away approaching a river crossing. Oops. It is usually not correct to retrace your steps in this case, you need a new plan taking into account what you know now about your position.