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Axios has better journalistic coverage about the Hyundai ICE raid

6 points by hbarka 1y ago

hbarka 1y ago
I could not get good information from mainstream news about the ICE raid on the Hyundai EV factory raid. They were all parroting the same talking points. The details about ESTA, B-1, and H-1B visas was the informational nuance that was missing. Where have the investigative reporters gone?
- SonOfKyuss 1y ago
  No one wants to pay for good journalism so it is in short supply
- throwawaysleep 1y ago
  You would reasonably conclude after Trump's re-election that the American public overwhelmingly doesn't care, so why bother do it?
chrisjj 1y ago
True title: Raid at Georgia battery plant points to conflicts in Trump's growth plans
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45139954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45139954
- hbarka 1y ago
  How is it a dupe? The discussion link you pointed to confirms my very point. There’s not a single mention of the visa quagmire and rug pull in that NBC article.
toomuchtodo 1y ago
Based on context and evidence provided so far, Hyundai elected visa fraud over training and employing US domestic workers (which is the intent of encouraging building in the US). Similar to TSMC in Arizona who “couldn’t find US workers.” They couldn’t find workers willing to worker under their expectations.
- hbarka 1y ago
  >> couldn’t find workers willing to worker under their expectations. Perhaps it’s more: couldn’t find workers meeting expectations. There was an urgency to invest in the US but could you really onboard local workers that quickly in building a sophisticated EV battery factory? If we could’ve we would’ve done it ourselves. We turned to a service economy where we thought all we had to be are “knowledge workers” and now we have a manufacturing lag but a desire to have it done yesterday.
- jltsiren 1y ago
  I believe there are two mostly unrelated stories: 1. Many of the construction workers were illegal immigrants. 2. When you are building a factory, you need to send engineers who are already familiar with your technology for various supervisory, training, and consulting tasks. It looks like the US does not have an appropriate visa category for such engineers, at least according to the current interpretation. The second story is the interesting one, as it reveals a conflict between American policy goals. The US wants to encourage foreign companies to invest in manufacturing in the US, but it's unwilling to change the immigration laws or interpret the existing laws to expedite that. Edit: L-1B is supposed to be the right visa, but the application process with petitions and interviews is too cumbersome in practice.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - tripletao 1y ago
    I believe you're correct. When foreign experts visit temporarily to transfer technology to a new site, there's no bright line between the "non-working" business activities permitted by a B visa or ESTA and those requiring H or L visas. If the DHS thought Hyundai had pushed that line too far, then they could have subpoenaed their records, and perhaps ultimately settled the case with a fine and a promise to comply with the clarified standard in future. That would all have been normal. They instead chose to lock up random employees "working" in a way their employer had probably assured them (rightly or wrongly) was lawful. That's not normal. The USA is a sovereign country, so it can impose whatever immigration policy it wants. No one should be surprised when foreign multinationals adjust their investment decisions accordingly though, or when American staff abroad face reciprocally unpleasant treatment.

6 points by hbarka 1y ago

I could not get good information from mainstream news about the ICE raid on the Hyundai EV factory raid. They were all parroting the same talking points. The details about ESTA, B-1, and H-1B visas was the informational nuance that was missing. Where have the investigative reporters gone?

SonOfKyuss 1y ago
No one wants to pay for good journalism so it is in short supply
throwawaysleep 1y ago
You would reasonably conclude after Trump's re-election that the American public overwhelmingly doesn't care, so why bother do it?

chrisjj 1y ago

True title: Raid at Georgia battery plant points to conflicts in Trump's growth plans

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45139954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45139954

hbarka 1y ago
How is it a dupe? The discussion link you pointed to confirms my very point. There’s not a single mention of the visa quagmire and rug pull in that NBC article.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Based on context and evidence provided so far, Hyundai elected visa fraud over training and employing US domestic workers (which is the intent of encouraging building in the US). Similar to TSMC in Arizona who “couldn’t find US workers.” They couldn’t find workers willing to worker under their expectations.

hbarka 1y ago
>> couldn’t find workers willing to worker under their expectations. Perhaps it’s more: couldn’t find workers meeting expectations. There was an urgency to invest in the US but could you really onboard local workers that quickly in building a sophisticated EV battery factory? If we could’ve we would’ve done it ourselves. We turned to a service economy where we thought all we had to be are “knowledge workers” and now we have a manufacturing lag but a desire to have it done yesterday.
jltsiren 1y ago
I believe there are two mostly unrelated stories: 1. Many of the construction workers were illegal immigrants. 2. When you are building a factory, you need to send engineers who are already familiar with your technology for various supervisory, training, and consulting tasks. It looks like the US does not have an appropriate visa category for such engineers, at least according to the current interpretation. The second story is the interesting one, as it reveals a conflict between American policy goals. The US wants to encourage foreign companies to invest in manufacturing in the US, but it's unwilling to change the immigration laws or interpret the existing laws to expedite that. Edit: L-1B is supposed to be the right visa, but the application process with petitions and interviews is too cumbersome in practice.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- tripletao 1y ago
  I believe you're correct. When foreign experts visit temporarily to transfer technology to a new site, there's no bright line between the "non-working" business activities permitted by a B visa or ESTA and those requiring H or L visas. If the DHS thought Hyundai had pushed that line too far, then they could have subpoenaed their records, and perhaps ultimately settled the case with a fine and a promise to comply with the clarified standard in future. That would all have been normal. They instead chose to lock up random employees "working" in a way their employer had probably assured them (rightly or wrongly) was lawful. That's not normal. The USA is a sovereign country, so it can impose whatever immigration policy it wants. No one should be surprised when foreign multinationals adjust their investment decisions accordingly though, or when American staff abroad face reciprocally unpleasant treatment.