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This article hits a nerve right now. I get ping'd daily about opportunities. In general, I politely decline. Why? Evaluating priorities. I have a full time

This article hits a nerve right now. I get ping'd daily about opportunities. In general, I politely decline. Why? Evaluating priorities. I have a full time gig that allows me an insane amount of flexibility (60% at home, flexible hours when in the office to avoid traffic). The time not commuting and lack of stress allows me to work on personal projects. I like the group I work with, the fact that we are a mix of product and research, and that we all collaborate well through a mix of communication -- in person, email, Skype, etc. Recently, a company I previously interviewed with, liked, but turned down, made a very generous offer -- probably 20-30% over my current situation at the cost of flexibility and working at home. It was technically more interesting and challenging than my current job. I thought about it and was going back and forth. My wife came to the point -- are you willing to give up your own projects and 6+ hours of commuting a week for the $ difference? Calculate the hourly rate just based on how much more you are commuting. She was right. Opportunities need to be weighed against what you want. Sometimes having a third party for a bit of reason helps.

Domenic_S 14y ago
Jim? > Opportunities need to be weighed against what you want. Yep. Sometimes the negatives can be outweighed by some strong positives -- a 30% increase might be worth more than 6 hours/week on the road to you (the general "you") or it might not. Sometimes, corny as it sounds, sitting down and writing out the ol' positives/negatives list helps. It's also really about what you want for your life. Do you want to build a startup? Do you want to work at a huge company? Do you like time for your own projects, or is a great day at the office all you need? > My wife came to the point -- are you willing to give up your own projects and 6+ hours of commuting a week for the $ difference? That calculation ignored the quality difference of the new job, which circles back to the /. post. How do you quantify that? What value and weight does it have in your calculation? If the quality of work + environment + coworkers was sufficiently better, what difference would that make on your calculation different values of "sufficiently"?
- jmspring 14y ago
  Dom - you and I know one another :) In my case, I think the quality of the jobs was probably equal -- I know people at the other location. In general, there is a risk in trying to assess quality of life at the possible opportunity. Unless one knows someone working in the group, you are going off of impressions formed off information through interviewing, possible external contacts, and the like. I do think you need to factor in what you are used to into the equation. I've been guilty of seeing a shiny technical challenge and running towards it only to realize a few months later, um..how'd I get here? Quality of work is probably easiest to evaluate Coworkers - you need to do the homework, find connections, references, etc. Environment is probably the hardest to evaluate -- asking questions will get you some answers - but has the company/group been through any challenges? If not, how can you gauge that? How will management react? This is a risk. You raise some great questions. In my case, quality was probably a slight plus, environment (counting commute) a wash to slight negative, coworkers (a wash to some unknowns). So not enough of a net positive to give up the time working on my own projects.
Tichy 14y ago
Longer commute time is highly correlated with unhappiness. I think scientists even determined a number for how much more you would have to earn to compensate for extra commute hours.
- pantaloons 14y ago
  Do you happen to have a link? I would be interested in reading that paper.
  - praptak 14y ago
    This article summarizes some of the research, unfortunately no direct links to papers (should be google-able via researcher names): http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your_commute_is_killing_you.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your... Found link to the commute-divorce paper, Erika Sandow Umeå University "On the road. Social aspects of commuting long distances to work.": http://umu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:415050/FULLTEXT01 http://umu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:415050/FULLTEXT01
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - joefarish 14y ago
    An interesting article from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2011/02/happiness_work_sleep_and_bicyc.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2011/02/h...
  - Tichy 14y ago
    This article seems to have some links to papers: http://lesswrong.com/lw/7am/rational_home_buying/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/7am/rational_home_buying/
  - lrobb 14y ago
    I can't seem to find it now, but I seem to recall that dropping from 1 hour to 20 minutes was worth a 30-40 pct reduction in pay. http://www.quora.com/What-studies-have-been-done-on-the-effect-of-commuting-on-happiness http://www.quora.com/What-studies-have-been-done-on-the-effe...
thaumaturgy 14y ago
I wrote a long and convincing reply about how you have to also know what you want in the future, and whether you want to have a happy and stable life or whether you want to seek some other kind of fulfillment... ...and then as I was about to post it, I realized that the people it would be intended for would already know everything in it, because it's part of their nature, and that it wouldn't do anybody else any good. So maybe there's an even simpler rule here: if you have a fun job, and you're not sure whether or not you should trade up to a less fun job, then you probably shouldn't let anyone talk you into leaving it. If it's right for you to give up a good job, you'll know it.
- fuzzix 14y ago
  "If it's right for you to give up a good job, you'll know it." I thought I knew, but it turns out the flexibility (hours, teleworking) I had in $previous_gig was something I took for granted. I enjoy the work I do now, but it can be stressful trying to code in an open plan office which also hosts other business concerns (communications, NOC...) edit People I work with read HN. Hello there. You know my feelings already ;)
  - thaumaturgy 14y ago
    Well, you don't leave a fun job because the next job is better in every way. :-) There are always tradeoffs. You just want to make sure they're trade-ups, too. It occurs to me that there's a perfect analogy for this: the one red paperclip dude (http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/ http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/). He wanted a house, and was willing to keep trading up for it -- even when he had to trade on some pretty great opportunities, things that other people would be willing to trade for and be happy with. And, in the end, he got his house, and he stopped -- that was what he wanted, and he didn't need to trade any further. Your current job might not be an afternoon with Alice Cooper, but maybe it's one KISS snow globe away from getting you that house you want.
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    "I enjoy the work I do now, but it can be stressful trying to code in an open plan office which also hosts other business concerns (communications, NOC...)" Intra-Ear headphones. Especially with noise cancelling. They do wonders.
pacala 14y ago
You did the right calculations. Often the XX% increase is barely sufficient to cover the mortgage / rent differential for a hypothetic move close to the new workplace.

Domenic_S 14y ago

Jim? > Opportunities need to be weighed against what you want. Yep. Sometimes the negatives can be outweighed by some strong positives -- a 30% increase might be worth more than 6 hours/week on the road to you (the general "you") or it might not. Sometimes, corny as it sounds, sitting down and writing out the ol' positives/negatives list helps. It's also really about what you want for your life. Do you want to build a startup? Do you want to work at a huge company? Do you like time for your own projects, or is a great day at the office all you need? > My wife came to the point -- are you willing to give up your own projects and 6+ hours of commuting a week for the $ difference? That calculation ignored the quality difference of the new job, which circles back to the /. post. How do you quantify that? What value and weight does it have in your calculation? If the quality of work + environment + coworkers was sufficiently better, what difference would that make on your calculation different values of "sufficiently"?

jmspring 14y ago
Dom - you and I know one another :) In my case, I think the quality of the jobs was probably equal -- I know people at the other location. In general, there is a risk in trying to assess quality of life at the possible opportunity. Unless one knows someone working in the group, you are going off of impressions formed off information through interviewing, possible external contacts, and the like. I do think you need to factor in what you are used to into the equation. I've been guilty of seeing a shiny technical challenge and running towards it only to realize a few months later, um..how'd I get here? Quality of work is probably easiest to evaluate Coworkers - you need to do the homework, find connections, references, etc. Environment is probably the hardest to evaluate -- asking questions will get you some answers - but has the company/group been through any challenges? If not, how can you gauge that? How will management react? This is a risk. You raise some great questions. In my case, quality was probably a slight plus, environment (counting commute) a wash to slight negative, coworkers (a wash to some unknowns). So not enough of a net positive to give up the time working on my own projects.

Tichy 14y ago

Longer commute time is highly correlated with unhappiness. I think scientists even determined a number for how much more you would have to earn to compensate for extra commute hours.

pantaloons 14y ago
Do you happen to have a link? I would be interested in reading that paper.
- praptak 14y ago
  This article summarizes some of the research, unfortunately no direct links to papers (should be google-able via researcher names): http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your_commute_is_killing_you.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your... Found link to the commute-divorce paper, Erika Sandow Umeå University "On the road. Social aspects of commuting long distances to work.": http://umu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:415050/FULLTEXT01 http://umu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:415050/FULLTEXT01
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- joefarish 14y ago
  An interesting article from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2011/02/happiness_work_sleep_and_bicyc.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2011/02/h...
- Tichy 14y ago
  This article seems to have some links to papers: http://lesswrong.com/lw/7am/rational_home_buying/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/7am/rational_home_buying/
- lrobb 14y ago
  I can't seem to find it now, but I seem to recall that dropping from 1 hour to 20 minutes was worth a 30-40 pct reduction in pay. http://www.quora.com/What-studies-have-been-done-on-the-effect-of-commuting-on-happiness http://www.quora.com/What-studies-have-been-done-on-the-effe...

thaumaturgy 14y ago

I wrote a long and convincing reply about how you have to also know what you want in the future, and whether you want to have a happy and stable life or whether you want to seek some other kind of fulfillment... ...and then as I was about to post it, I realized that the people it would be intended for would already know everything in it, because it's part of their nature, and that it wouldn't do anybody else any good. So maybe there's an even simpler rule here: if you have a fun job, and you're not sure whether or not you should trade up to a less fun job, then you probably shouldn't let anyone talk you into leaving it. If it's right for you to give up a good job, you'll know it.

fuzzix 14y ago
"If it's right for you to give up a good job, you'll know it." I thought I knew, but it turns out the flexibility (hours, teleworking) I had in $previous_gig was something I took for granted. I enjoy the work I do now, but it can be stressful trying to code in an open plan office which also hosts other business concerns (communications, NOC...) edit People I work with read HN. Hello there. You know my feelings already ;)
- thaumaturgy 14y ago
  Well, you don't leave a fun job because the next job is better in every way. :-) There are always tradeoffs. You just want to make sure they're trade-ups, too. It occurs to me that there's a perfect analogy for this: the one red paperclip dude (http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/ http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/). He wanted a house, and was willing to keep trading up for it -- even when he had to trade on some pretty great opportunities, things that other people would be willing to trade for and be happy with. And, in the end, he got his house, and he stopped -- that was what he wanted, and he didn't need to trade any further. Your current job might not be an afternoon with Alice Cooper, but maybe it's one KISS snow globe away from getting you that house you want.
- raverbashing 14y ago
  "I enjoy the work I do now, but it can be stressful trying to code in an open plan office which also hosts other business concerns (communications, NOC...)" Intra-Ear headphones. Especially with noise cancelling. They do wonders.

pacala 14y ago

You did the right calculations. Often the XX% increase is barely sufficient to cover the mortgage / rent differential for a hypothetic move close to the new workplace.