4 ms·

We probably need to rethink how companies are structured - there are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries but are (in theory) dictatorship

We probably need to rethink how companies are structured - there are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries but are (in theory) dictatorships with no official ability to change course if the one guy who owns the shares does not want to. Who is the ‘demos’ in a company? Who gets a vote ? Will voting really slow things down?

cyanydeez 1y ago
Theres a whole swath of positive regulatory structure that would both improve the company and its employees, but capitalism is stuck in the delusion that self interest is the only yardstick we need to concern ourselves with. Why? Because being poor isnt a structural problem, but a moral or ethical or laziness. Its fascinating watching business culture basically align with prosperity gospel in that if you can grift it, it _must_ be good/just/right.
graemep 1y ago
> here are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries IS that true? What do you define as the revenue of a country? Tax revenues? That is just the government. GDP/GNP/GNI? That comparison for that should be profit, and only a handful of really big companies (Saudi Aramco, Apple, that sort of size) have a profit as large as the GDP of mid-size middle income countries (e.g. Sri Lanka) or small rich countries (e.g. Luxembourg). There is a long tail of small or poor countries so most countries by number, but most people live in a country with a GDP that is an order of magnitude or two greater than any company's profit.
- hiatus 1y ago
  Why would GDP be the proxy for a country's profit? If I pay someone to build a house and another person to tear that house down, both activities contribute to GDP while producing nothing of tangible value.
  - tempodox 1y ago
    If it were the same company, that company would have made profit twice. Or did your house change country before being torn down?
  - boppo1 1y ago
    But they spent the money you paid them and it stimulated the economy! We assume value was created elsewhere. /s Econ is a crock.
- adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
  gdp is a revenue like number, not a profit like number.
  - graemep 1y ago
    It is closest to value added something most companies do not disclose but is closely related to profit but is NOTHING like revenue.
    - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
      no, if you trade a dollar back and forth 1000 times with a friend, you are adding $1000 to the GDP.
      - graemep 1y ago
        If you pay someone a dollar, that is because they supplied you with something worth a dollar - i.e. a dollar's worth of value added to the economy.
        adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
        right, but if an item goes through 10 different factories to be assembled the price each pays from the previous gets added to GDP.
kriops 1y ago
As long as the companies in question aren't monopolies on violence, it's a complete non-issue. So with that in mind, why would any sane person want to impose such an inefficient mechanism to allocate resources and make decisions within a company or corporation? The only good thing about democracy in the context of a state, after all, is that every other alternative is worse. But that is strictly because of the fundamentally violent nature of the concept of a state, which does not apply to companies or corporations.
- HighGoldstein 1y ago
  Violence is not always physical. The likes of Meta have subjected the world to unfathomable violence, but we give them a pass because we can't see the scars with our eyes.
  - samdoesnothing 1y ago
    Huh? Violence is defined as the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy. If you mean "harm", please use that word instead of wrongly using another.
- ohdeargodno 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    violence is defined specifically as the use of physical force, and I expect the other commentator you're replying to specifically chose that word for a reason.
    - ohdeargodno 1y ago
      No, it isn't. Every single definition of violence includes forms other than just physical. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines violence as "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation

cyanydeez 1y ago

Theres a whole swath of positive regulatory structure that would both improve the company and its employees, but capitalism is stuck in the delusion that self interest is the only yardstick we need to concern ourselves with. Why? Because being poor isnt a structural problem, but a moral or ethical or laziness. Its fascinating watching business culture basically align with prosperity gospel in that if you can grift it, it _must_ be good/just/right.

graemep 1y ago

> here are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries IS that true? What do you define as the revenue of a country? Tax revenues? That is just the government. GDP/GNP/GNI? That comparison for that should be profit, and only a handful of really big companies (Saudi Aramco, Apple, that sort of size) have a profit as large as the GDP of mid-size middle income countries (e.g. Sri Lanka) or small rich countries (e.g. Luxembourg). There is a long tail of small or poor countries so most countries by number, but most people live in a country with a GDP that is an order of magnitude or two greater than any company's profit.

hiatus 1y ago
Why would GDP be the proxy for a country's profit? If I pay someone to build a house and another person to tear that house down, both activities contribute to GDP while producing nothing of tangible value.
- tempodox 1y ago
  If it were the same company, that company would have made profit twice. Or did your house change country before being torn down?
- boppo1 1y ago
  But they spent the money you paid them and it stimulated the economy! We assume value was created elsewhere. /s Econ is a crock.
adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
gdp is a revenue like number, not a profit like number.
- graemep 1y ago
  It is closest to value added something most companies do not disclose but is closely related to profit but is NOTHING like revenue.
  - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
    no, if you trade a dollar back and forth 1000 times with a friend, you are adding $1000 to the GDP.
    - graemep 1y ago
      If you pay someone a dollar, that is because they supplied you with something worth a dollar - i.e. a dollar's worth of value added to the economy.
      - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
        right, but if an item goes through 10 different factories to be assembled the price each pays from the previous gets added to GDP.

kriops 1y ago

As long as the companies in question aren't monopolies on violence, it's a complete non-issue. So with that in mind, why would any sane person want to impose such an inefficient mechanism to allocate resources and make decisions within a company or corporation? The only good thing about democracy in the context of a state, after all, is that every other alternative is worse. But that is strictly because of the fundamentally violent nature of the concept of a state, which does not apply to companies or corporations.

HighGoldstein 1y ago
Violence is not always physical. The likes of Meta have subjected the world to unfathomable violence, but we give them a pass because we can't see the scars with our eyes.
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  Huh? Violence is defined as the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy. If you mean "harm", please use that word instead of wrongly using another.
ohdeargodno 1y ago
[flagged]
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  violence is defined specifically as the use of physical force, and I expect the other commentator you're replying to specifically chose that word for a reason.
  - ohdeargodno 1y ago
    No, it isn't. Every single definition of violence includes forms other than just physical. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines violence as "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation