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The ol all requirements up front -> design -> implement that people classically associate with waterfall came from an infographic on how not to do waterfall. A

The ol all requirements up front -> design -> implement that people classically associate with waterfall came from an infographic on how not to do waterfall. Actual waterfall looks very much like actual agile, in that it is designed around iteration loops. The primary difference is that waterfall prescribed steps in the iteration process, and agile is just a set of principles in a manifesto. Edit: reference: https://beza1e1.tuxen.de/waterfall.html https://beza1e1.tuxen.de/waterfall.html TLDR: the original impetus for waterfall is basically what we call agile today. Someone copy-pasted a random chart from a paper (one the paper specifically said was too problematic) into a DOD process spec, that turned into a standard because the DOD loves to standardize everything, and big companies all adopted the fundamentally flawed approach and called it waterfall.

rramadass 1y ago
Most people know nothing about "Waterfall Model" which if you think about it, is just commonsense meta framework using which you can implement any SDLC methodology. Pair it with "Spiral Model" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_model) and you are golden. This excellent writeup by David Olson gives both the history and the correct understanding; The Myth of the 'Waterfall' SDLC - http://www.bawiki.com/wiki/Waterfall.html http://www.bawiki.com/wiki/Waterfall.html
- adastra22 1y ago
  Reading this subthread is wild. I worked for NASA earlier in my career. We never used the term waterfall, but the process described by that term is epitomized by large government projects, and NASA engineering culture in particular. Most of what people are describing here would be unrecognizable to any government program office.
Jtsummers 1y ago
> Actual waterfall looks very much like actual agile, in that it is designed around iteration loops. No, Waterfall was not agile, it was the diagram from Royce but not what he recommended from his paper (which tore down that diagram). What Royce added to that diagram (fundamentally, just common sense with feedback loops) was closer to agile, though. Royce himself never called anything Waterfall, but what was termed Waterfall was the bad process he tore apart.
the_af 1y ago
> Actual waterfall looks very much like actual agile, in that it is designed around iteration loops. The primary difference is that waterfall prescribed steps in the iteration process, and agile is just a set of principles in a manifesto. In that case, I don't believe companies follow either. I've never seen anything as principled (in any form) practiced anywhere. Companies claiming to do Agile were usually doing some rituals and cosplaying as agile. I don't believe I've ever seen a company doing "waterfall" or anything resembling what your link describes either. They mostly do chaos-driven development.

rramadass 1y ago

Most people know nothing about "Waterfall Model" which if you think about it, is just commonsense meta framework using which you can implement any SDLC methodology. Pair it with "Spiral Model" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_model) and you are golden. This excellent writeup by David Olson gives both the history and the correct understanding; The Myth of the 'Waterfall' SDLC - http://www.bawiki.com/wiki/Waterfall.html http://www.bawiki.com/wiki/Waterfall.html

adastra22 1y ago
Reading this subthread is wild. I worked for NASA earlier in my career. We never used the term waterfall, but the process described by that term is epitomized by large government projects, and NASA engineering culture in particular. Most of what people are describing here would be unrecognizable to any government program office.

Jtsummers 1y ago

> Actual waterfall looks very much like actual agile, in that it is designed around iteration loops. No, Waterfall was not agile, it was the diagram from Royce but not what he recommended from his paper (which tore down that diagram). What Royce added to that diagram (fundamentally, just common sense with feedback loops) was closer to agile, though. Royce himself never called anything Waterfall, but what was termed Waterfall was the bad process he tore apart.

the_af 1y ago

> Actual waterfall looks very much like actual agile, in that it is designed around iteration loops. The primary difference is that waterfall prescribed steps in the iteration process, and agile is just a set of principles in a manifesto. In that case, I don't believe companies follow either. I've never seen anything as principled (in any form) practiced anywhere. Companies claiming to do Agile were usually doing some rituals and cosplaying as agile. I don't believe I've ever seen a company doing "waterfall" or anything resembling what your link describes either. They mostly do chaos-driven development.