4 ms·

It's hard to think of a language for server side programming that I could go back and recommend to build their business on 20 or 30 years ago than java. I don't

It's hard to think of a language for server side programming that I could go back and recommend to build their business on 20 or 30 years ago than java. I don't think aws or even Google regret it. Think of the amount of profitable requests being processed by the jvm all over the world for years by every kind of business.

_aavaa_ 1y ago
Yeah, but whose JVM are they running on? I’d be surprised if they’re all paying the lawnmower.
const_cast 1y ago
That's just because oracle are assholes but not that big of assholes. If OpenJDK did not or could not exist, we would all be mega fucked. Luckily alternative Java implementations exist, are performant, and are largely indistinguishable from the non-free stuff. Well, except whatever android has going on... That stuff is quirky. But if you look at dotnet, prior to opensourcing it, it was kind of a fucked up choice to go with. You were basically locked into Windows Server for your backend and your application would basically slowly rot over time as you relied on legacy windows subsystems that even Microsoft barely cared to support, like COM+. There were always alternative dotnet runtimes like Mono, but they were very not feature complete. Which, ironically, is why we saw so much Java. The CLR is arguably a better designed VM and C# a better language, but it doesn't matter.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  OpenJDK is mainly developed by Oracle employees, the other big one OpenJ9 is developed by IBM, everything else like Azul, PTC, Aicas, microEJ,.... are commercial.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    Yeah and dotnet is developed by MS. What matters is it's open source, and that's literally the only reason we're even talking about dotnet right now. Dotnet was on a slow roll to complete obsolence until MS saw the writing on the wall and open sourced it.
rs186 1y ago
That's definitely true. But we are talking about now, aren't we? A decision of which language to use today is very different from the considerations 20/30 years ago.

_aavaa_ 1y ago

Yeah, but whose JVM are they running on? I’d be surprised if they’re all paying the lawnmower.

const_cast 1y ago

That's just because oracle are assholes but not that big of assholes. If OpenJDK did not or could not exist, we would all be mega fucked. Luckily alternative Java implementations exist, are performant, and are largely indistinguishable from the non-free stuff. Well, except whatever android has going on... That stuff is quirky. But if you look at dotnet, prior to opensourcing it, it was kind of a fucked up choice to go with. You were basically locked into Windows Server for your backend and your application would basically slowly rot over time as you relied on legacy windows subsystems that even Microsoft barely cared to support, like COM+. There were always alternative dotnet runtimes like Mono, but they were very not feature complete. Which, ironically, is why we saw so much Java. The CLR is arguably a better designed VM and C# a better language, but it doesn't matter.

pjmlp 1y ago
OpenJDK is mainly developed by Oracle employees, the other big one OpenJ9 is developed by IBM, everything else like Azul, PTC, Aicas, microEJ,.... are commercial.
- const_cast 1y ago
  Yeah and dotnet is developed by MS. What matters is it's open source, and that's literally the only reason we're even talking about dotnet right now. Dotnet was on a slow roll to complete obsolence until MS saw the writing on the wall and open sourced it.

rs186 1y ago

That's definitely true. But we are talking about now, aren't we? A decision of which language to use today is very different from the considerations 20/30 years ago.