5 ms·

> Just because it uses the same rail gauge as intercity freight doesn't require it to run on the same set of tracks. We're talking about BART, which uses a tra

> Just because it uses the same rail gauge as intercity freight doesn't require it to run on the same set of tracks. We're talking about BART, which uses a track gauge of 5'6" instead of the standard US rail gauge of 4'8.5". They can't run on the same tracks. (Actually, this is generally true even for those systems that do use 4'8.5" gauge track--I suspect that the standard US freight car envelope doesn't actually fit on most subway systems.)

leeter 1y ago
They would not, the term you're looking for is "Loading Gauge"[1]. The US freight loading gauge is one of the larger ones. That said there are other reasons a subway could end up being subject to Federal Railroad Administration[2] rules. I will note that I'm not an expert on those rules. But, generally passenger rail systems in the US are subject to Positive Train Control[3] or equivalent. It appears BART is actually one of the earliest adopters of Automatic Train Control[4], which appears to be a PTC equivalent. If not more automated. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administratio... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#Automation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#Automat...
reaperducer 1y ago
(Actually, this is generally true even for those systems that do use 4'8.5" gauge track--I suspect that the standard US freight car envelope doesn't actually fit on most subway systems.) As a related aside, the Chicago Transit Authority still ran freight on its tracks until not that long ago. Maybe the early 2000's?
- bombcar 1y ago
  Standard US freight envelope doesn't even fit on the standard US freight line, famously there are tunnels and bridges in the East that prevent Superliner and other double-stack cars from getting into New York and other places. It is certainly possible to send a freight train that will fit in most subway tunnels of the right gauge, but you may need a short locomotive and short cars. (After all, what are the maintenance trains but a form of freight?)
  - jcranmer 1y ago
    > Standard US freight envelope doesn't even fit on the standard US freight line, famously there are tunnels and bridges in the East that prevent Superliner and other double-stack cars from getting into New York and other places. The standard US freight envelope probably counts as Plate C, which is 10'8" wide by 15'6" above the rail. Plate H is the standard for double-stacked containers, which pushes the height to 20'2". (The part of the loading gauge that I'd be most concerned about is actually the width of the cars at the bottom of the carbody--passenger cars tend to be somewhat narrower than standard boxcar, and given a desire to minimize the platform gap, I'd think there's a decent chance that most freight would strike the platform.)
    - bombcar 1y ago
      That’s probably the #1 issue - freight works fine on low platform lines, but high platform ones probably won’t work without modified cars.
- selectodude 1y ago
  Last freight service was 1973.
zahlman 1y ago
> We're talking about BART, which uses a [non-standard] track gauge Eh? I thought we (TTC, in Toronto) were the only ones making that mistake.

leeter 1y ago

They would not, the term you're looking for is "Loading Gauge"[1]. The US freight loading gauge is one of the larger ones. That said there are other reasons a subway could end up being subject to Federal Railroad Administration[2] rules. I will note that I'm not an expert on those rules. But, generally passenger rail systems in the US are subject to Positive Train Control[3] or equivalent. It appears BART is actually one of the earliest adopters of Automatic Train Control[4], which appears to be a PTC equivalent. If not more automated. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Railroad_Administratio... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#Automation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit#Automat...

reaperducer 1y ago

(Actually, this is generally true even for those systems that do use 4'8.5" gauge track--I suspect that the standard US freight car envelope doesn't actually fit on most subway systems.) As a related aside, the Chicago Transit Authority still ran freight on its tracks until not that long ago. Maybe the early 2000's?

bombcar 1y ago
Standard US freight envelope doesn't even fit on the standard US freight line, famously there are tunnels and bridges in the East that prevent Superliner and other double-stack cars from getting into New York and other places. It is certainly possible to send a freight train that will fit in most subway tunnels of the right gauge, but you may need a short locomotive and short cars. (After all, what are the maintenance trains but a form of freight?)
- jcranmer 1y ago
  > Standard US freight envelope doesn't even fit on the standard US freight line, famously there are tunnels and bridges in the East that prevent Superliner and other double-stack cars from getting into New York and other places. The standard US freight envelope probably counts as Plate C, which is 10'8" wide by 15'6" above the rail. Plate H is the standard for double-stacked containers, which pushes the height to 20'2". (The part of the loading gauge that I'd be most concerned about is actually the width of the cars at the bottom of the carbody--passenger cars tend to be somewhat narrower than standard boxcar, and given a desire to minimize the platform gap, I'd think there's a decent chance that most freight would strike the platform.)
  - bombcar 1y ago
    That’s probably the #1 issue - freight works fine on low platform lines, but high platform ones probably won’t work without modified cars.
selectodude 1y ago
Last freight service was 1973.

zahlman 1y ago

> We're talking about BART, which uses a [non-standard] track gauge Eh? I thought we (TTC, in Toronto) were the only ones making that mistake.