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This is my recurring gripe with these "mini computers": Power cable? Not included. SSD adapter? Not included. Needs a mini HDMI to HDMI cable. Needs a cooli

This is my recurring gripe with these "mini computers": Power cable? Not included. SSD adapter? Not included. Needs a mini HDMI to HDMI cable. Needs a cooling case (absolutely required for Pi 5). It feels a bit like Tesla’s "gas savings" pricing deception. The Pi looks cheap on paper, but the actual usable cost is buried under "essential extras" [1]. [1] https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-16gb/?src=raspberrypi https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-16gb/?src=raspb...

accrual 1y ago
Can confirm, I needed to buy a passive cooling case and HDMI to Mini HDMI adapter just to setup and work on my Pi 4. I already had a spare 32GB microSD laying around. Thankfully it's fully headless now and it can get power from basically any USB-C port. For my case it wasn't too bad, maybe $30-40 to get up and running on top of the Pi 4 cost. But I totally get what you mean, especially if one wants more capacity, active cooling, dedicated PSU, etc.
kej 1y ago
I feel like the Pi 4 and 5 have moved into a weird limbo area, where if you want it as a small computer there are better computers that include all the things you mentioned, and if you want it for integrating with electronics there are probably less powerful but cheaper options that would work just as well.
- ploxiln 1y ago
  The Pi 3 B+ is still available for $35, it's what I still use on occasion - as an ad-hoc networked sensor, or an LED or switch controller, or an weird eeprom programmer ... Sure I could use an arduino in many cases, but the Pi running linux can be very convenient, with bash or regular python or even small unix C utilities (which I can tweak and re-compile right on the Pi!)
  - ThatPlayer 1y ago
    Yeah, the Raspberry Pi 4 is available at $35 too, and I like the less common Pi 3A+. The competitors at that price are only the rk3566 boards The Pi 5 and the RK3588 boards is when I'd get an Intel N100 miniPC instead.
- tzs 1y ago
  What I'd really like is an RPi4 or RPi5 that has an ATmega328P on board that can be programmed and controlled from the software running on the ARM processor. Basically a built-in Arduino UNO.
  - teamonkey 1y ago
    Have you looked at programming the RP1 chip on board the Pi5? It’s not exactly a RP2040 but it has PIO and other similarities.
  - ThatPlayer 1y ago
    Not an ATmega328P (and not ARM), but the Radxa X4 has an Intel N100 with a RP2040 microcontroller built-in.
    - teamonkey 1y ago
      I remember someone testing that board (Jeff Geerling, maybe?) and there was significant lag on the GPIO because the MCU is essentially an external device with communication over serial (IIRC), it just happens to be mounted on the motherboard.
      - ThatPlayer 1y ago
        The Raspberry Pi 5 has also done something similar: the CPU no longer controls the GPIO directly, but through a RP1 southbridge. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? Don't see any mention of latency on Jeff's review on it, and I doubt the Radxa X4 is popular enough for any big in-depth review like that. It looks like the RP2040 on the X4 is connected via USB. The RP2040's bootloader mode that enables flashing emulates a mass storage device over USB to transfer firmware, so it would be confusing to not connect it via USB.
        teamonkey 1y ago
        To clarify, the issue with the X4 is that it essentially is no different than having a Pi Pico attached via USB. This means that your x86 program doesn’t directly control the GPIOs, it must communicate with the RP2040 over USB serial. The RP2040 must be flashed with a firmware that knows how to handle these serial commands. It works, but it’s an extra step and timing may be an issue. On the other hand, a Raspberry Pi Linux program can toggle GPIO pins natively simply by using the official libraries. I mentioned the RP1 in another comment.
- ShakataGaNai 1y ago
  Not even limbo. If you need an ultra low power SBC, Pi is there. But if you want the cheapest option, it ain't. A raspberry pi 5 8gb CanaKit. So pi, fan, microsd, cords, power. Comes in at $160 on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Starter-Kit-PRO/dp/B0CRSNCJ6Y https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Starter-Kit-PRO/dp/... You can get any number of Intel N150 MiniPC's with RAM, SSD and power cord for $140? https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-mini-pc-computer-n150/dp/B0CH81C4K3 https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-mini-pc-computer-n150/dp/B0CH8... Maybe less on sale. And an Intel N150 is going to score 2-3x on standard benchmarks what the RPi does. You can find older N100 based mini PC's for even less. The pi still has its place, again, for those ultra low power use cases. But for "I just want a small computer", it's not the option. Mostly because of economies of scale. Everything in the MiniPC's is made at thousands of times more scale than the RPi. Also.... in Chinese factories for significantly less cost to start with.
  - arcane23 1y ago
    The way I used my Raspberry Pi boards fits into two categories, either always on providing some network service (with a shield), which usually benefits from very low power draw, either needing SPI/I2C/serial to connect to random hardware. For both of these use cases x86 miniPCs are not adequate. They either lack the GPIO header either they draw way more power than ~3-5W (onboard chipset, RAM etc draw extra power)
  - dogleash 1y ago
    For a pi/SBC alternative, I've found used minipcs on ebay sold by the lot can have very cheap per-unit prices. The hardware may be 5+ years old, but that can still be way more than you need.
- Mister_Snuggles 1y ago
  Honestly, the big thing that the Pi has is the support and mindshare. Compared to many equivalents (e.g., the Banana Pi) you'll find much better documentation and have a much more polished experience with a Raspberry Pi. The only question, for me anyway, is how much value I put on that experience and whether the increased cost is worth it.
  - joshuanapoli 1y ago
    Yes, this is it. When I'm experimenting, I'm happy to pay an extra $40 for the name-brand device that has 1000s of blog posts supporting it, since it's probably this community is going to help me be more successful and learn faster. I would reconsider the choice when I have a commercial product that I have some scale of production, where a few bucks off the BOM is important.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  Respectfully, not from my angle! From a purely hardware perspective, I think it's always been in that "limbo" for almost every use case anyway. For a hobbyist even in Ye Olden Days (before there were other single board computers) you were always able to pull up Craiglist or walk to the thrift store and buy a $50 PC that vastly outperformed a Pi anyway. Underclock that PC and it could be a fanless power miser too, albeit not quite down to Pi levels. (Pretty sure I remember people clocking 900mhz P3's down to 500mhz fanless, that kind of thing. Still faster than a O.G. RPi...) So the Pi's hardware was really only a revelation if you needed that semi-embeddable form factor, or if you wanted to do something like manage a classroom of cheap low-performance PCs without the nightmare of managing a fleet of heterogeneous junk PCs. It was always all about the objectively awesome ecosystem of support and peripherals, and deciding whether that ecosystem mattered for you and your use case. Sometimes that ecosystem is a massive boon and sometimes it doesn't matter at all.
  - JohnBooty 1y ago
    Tangentially, it's always been annoying (and maybe slightly morbidly humorous) how the RPi has always remained a sort of barely-tolerable web browsing machine, even as the hardware's performance has massively increased, because the weight and complexity of web pages has also correspondingly increased.
randomtoast 1y ago
The Pi 5 may look like a bargain at first, but once you add all the extras needed to turn it into a mini PC, you are already in the starter price range of NUCs or used ThinkStations and ThinkPads on eBay.
Aurornis 1y ago
I think the mistake is the trend of trying to treat it like a mini computer. If you buy a Pi, stick an old SD card in it, plug it into an old USB charger you have lying around, and connect it to the network it's great for people learning how to use Linux, command line, and SSH. You can connect things to the headers and experiment with it as originally intended. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to try to treat it like a mini desktop computer. Like you said, it's very expensive to add on all of the accessories: High power adapter, M.2 hat, SSD, special HDMI cables, and a case for cooling. By the time you're done, you've spent as much as a cheap x86 computer that would outperform it and come with none of the software quirks. Just because you can outfit it will all of those things doesn't mean most people should. If you really want a mini computer, get a mini computer.
- coffeecoders 1y ago
  I think that’s the real distinction: the Pi isn’t interesting as a "cheap desktop", it’s interesting because of GPIO + the huge ecosystem of HATs, sensors, and weird little projects. If you just want a small, cheap computer, x86 boxes are better in every way. But if you want something you can hook wires to, fry once in a while, and find 20 blog posts about someone doing the same, Pi still has a niche that’s hard to replicate. All I’m saying is that Pi projects can get really expensive if you want to do anything beyond a basic install like Pi-hole and leave it as-is. Even simpler projects - say, connecting a motor or a servo require additional components like a power module or distribution board, which quickly adds up.
  - epx 1y ago
    It is a bit expensive for this kind of "dangerous" experimenting. I wish there was a ESP32-like capable of running Linux. (Actually, there is: BeagleBoard. But these are even more expensive.)
    - volemo 1y ago
      What about Onion Omega? https://onion.io/omega2s/ https://onion.io/omega2s/
arp242 1y ago
So buy the desktop kit if that's what you want: https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-desktop-kit-us/?searchid=0&search_query=Raspberry+Pi+5 https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-desktop-kit-us/... Many people don't want/need all of it, and they can buy just the board without paying for stuff they don't need. This is not a deception. Stop spreading misinformation.
baq 1y ago
meanwhile any N100 box on aliexpress...
impure-aqua 1y ago
Unless you need the GPIO pins it is likely a better choice to go with one of the many x86 mini PCs on Amazon, although you need to ensure it is not totally no-name. I got a GMKtec G5 which is about ~3"x3"x2", has an Intel N97 CPU, 12GB of RAM, and a 512GB SSD (upgraded to a 2TB NVMe disk). No need to buy an additional power adapter (included, it's Type-C), HDMI adapters, or case/fan, either. I think it was about £110 with next-day shipping from Amazon. It has remarkable performance; I tried GNOME on NixOS and it felt instantly responsive for all general purpose desktop use (web browsing, vscodium with my linting extensions, etc). The only area of my everyday workflow in which it clearly fell behind my M1 Max MacBook Pro was in Rust compilation which is obviously expected - I was just shocked how close it was for everything outside of that. This is in huge contrast to Raspberry Pis which suck to use graphically, even with the Pi 5. It has happily been sitting on my desk running Forgejo, Mastodon, Vaultwarden, and acting as a personal storage server with that 2TB drive for the last ~6 months and I never even hear the fan. Sits at 0.1 load average, despite Mastodon with this many relays previously eating up the contabo VPS' CPU I was using quite handily.
- _paulc 1y ago
  If you need GPIO support on a mini-PC you can just use a cheap FT232H breakout [1] with either PyFTDI [2], which supports pretty much all the protocols you need (UART/GPIO/SPI/I2C), or alternatively use CircuitPython with Blinka [3] which gives you access to the CircuitPython drivers etc. [1] https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264 https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264 [2] https://pypi.org/project/pyftdi/ https://pypi.org/project/pyftdi/ [3] https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-on-any-computer-with-ft232h https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-on-any-computer-wit...
  - arcane23 1y ago
    Still no I2S.
  - bobmcnamara 1y ago
    Sell me the RP1 on PCIe!
NooneAtAll3 1y ago
what did I miss about EVs and gas savings?
gertrunde 1y ago
Hmm... As far as power cables go, I think I only ever bought one proper PSU for a Pi, the rest were all powered from various bits of discarded PSU here and there, and in one case via a 5-way usb power thing. (Heck - I think only 2 of the last 5 phones I've had came with a power supply). SSD - definitely nice to have, but I've not used one on a pi yet. For display cables - most of my pi's tend to be headless, and I pre-configure the network bits when I image the sd card, so I don't often use the display at all. Cooling case has become more necessary with the 5, although a heatsink alone can cope if airflow is good enough (e.g. if there's no case, of if the top is off). But yes, if you want to use it in a desktop replacement scenario, then the extras do add up quite a bit.
- Hamuko 1y ago
  I got a power-over-Ethernet splitter for my Pi 2B since being able to use PoE might be the only advantage it has over a mini PC. Otherwise it's just a very slow PC that takes 45 minutes to compile the single service I run on it. Not sure if any of the newer Pi boards can be powered with a simple splitter rather than a PoE hat, as the 2B is quite low power.
webdevver 1y ago
i suppose having a standardized hw platform, standardized first-class sw platform (raspbian), plus the entire internet's worth of raspberry pi discourse is ultimately what you're paying for. if the 'computer'-ey part of your project is a cost centre, the rpi starts to look attractive.
WorldPeas 1y ago
to me the wyse with an arduino ziptied to the top has always been a better pi than the pi (power savings nonwithstanding, at least I get SATA/NVme/Msata and x86's wide support)
theandrewbailey 1y ago
I work in the refurb division of an e-waste recycling company. It occurred to me last week that the mini desktops I list might be better and cheaper than a Raspberry Pi in a lot of situations. https://www.ebay.com/str/evolutionecycling/Mini-Desktops/_i.html?store_cat=45373346014 https://www.ebay.com/str/evolutionecycling/Mini-Desktops/_i....
klipklop 1y ago
I agree. The average Intel N150 system is significantly faster and cheaper since it includes stuff like PSU, storage and a case. The Pi is a poor value.
- unnouinceput 1y ago
  It's also significantly bigger too, so in applications where size matter the RPi wins.
- arcane23 1y ago
  But no GPIOs or similarly low total power draw.
dfxm12 1y ago
They're all standard connectors though. The product is hobbyist enough that I understand that I won't get extras with the device and that's fine since I know have some laying around already anyway. Kits are available for a little more, if you are just getting started and don't want to hunt for each individual component.
bluedino 1y ago
When I bought the original one, I also had to get a powered USB hub because it only had 2 ports and a lot of things would draw too much power and make it crash or power cycle.
- nxobject 1y ago
  I remember having to get composite cables!
m463 1y ago
It crossed the point where mini or barebone pcs are a better deal, unless you really want to use hardware/GPIOs/etc Tesla is another story. They used to sell complete cars, now they put in a touchscreen and have taken away the dashboard, the buttons, and now the turn signal and drive select stalks. It's not minimalist or cost savings, it is cheap.
bobmcnamara 1y ago
Ahem, MicroHDMI to HDMI. That miniHDMI to HDMI from Pi3 just won't do .
RShackleford 1y ago
[dead]
penguin_booze 1y ago
Tangent, but: a lot of these 'batteries included' world has come to an end. Airline tickets are another example: you should pay extra for check-in luggage; you should pay extra for seat selection; you should pay extra for using the toilet. OK, the last one, I just made up, but I wonder how long we have before that turns true.

accrual 1y ago

Can confirm, I needed to buy a passive cooling case and HDMI to Mini HDMI adapter just to setup and work on my Pi 4. I already had a spare 32GB microSD laying around. Thankfully it's fully headless now and it can get power from basically any USB-C port. For my case it wasn't too bad, maybe $30-40 to get up and running on top of the Pi 4 cost. But I totally get what you mean, especially if one wants more capacity, active cooling, dedicated PSU, etc.

kej 1y ago

I feel like the Pi 4 and 5 have moved into a weird limbo area, where if you want it as a small computer there are better computers that include all the things you mentioned, and if you want it for integrating with electronics there are probably less powerful but cheaper options that would work just as well.

ploxiln 1y ago
The Pi 3 B+ is still available for $35, it's what I still use on occasion - as an ad-hoc networked sensor, or an LED or switch controller, or an weird eeprom programmer ... Sure I could use an arduino in many cases, but the Pi running linux can be very convenient, with bash or regular python or even small unix C utilities (which I can tweak and re-compile right on the Pi!)
- ThatPlayer 1y ago
  Yeah, the Raspberry Pi 4 is available at $35 too, and I like the less common Pi 3A+. The competitors at that price are only the rk3566 boards The Pi 5 and the RK3588 boards is when I'd get an Intel N100 miniPC instead.
tzs 1y ago
What I'd really like is an RPi4 or RPi5 that has an ATmega328P on board that can be programmed and controlled from the software running on the ARM processor. Basically a built-in Arduino UNO.
- teamonkey 1y ago
  Have you looked at programming the RP1 chip on board the Pi5? It’s not exactly a RP2040 but it has PIO and other similarities.
- ThatPlayer 1y ago
  Not an ATmega328P (and not ARM), but the Radxa X4 has an Intel N100 with a RP2040 microcontroller built-in.
  - teamonkey 1y ago
    I remember someone testing that board (Jeff Geerling, maybe?) and there was significant lag on the GPIO because the MCU is essentially an external device with communication over serial (IIRC), it just happens to be mounted on the motherboard.
    - ThatPlayer 1y ago
      The Raspberry Pi 5 has also done something similar: the CPU no longer controls the GPIO directly, but through a RP1 southbridge. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? Don't see any mention of latency on Jeff's review on it, and I doubt the Radxa X4 is popular enough for any big in-depth review like that. It looks like the RP2040 on the X4 is connected via USB. The RP2040's bootloader mode that enables flashing emulates a mass storage device over USB to transfer firmware, so it would be confusing to not connect it via USB.
      - teamonkey 1y ago
        To clarify, the issue with the X4 is that it essentially is no different than having a Pi Pico attached via USB. This means that your x86 program doesn’t directly control the GPIOs, it must communicate with the RP2040 over USB serial. The RP2040 must be flashed with a firmware that knows how to handle these serial commands. It works, but it’s an extra step and timing may be an issue. On the other hand, a Raspberry Pi Linux program can toggle GPIO pins natively simply by using the official libraries. I mentioned the RP1 in another comment.
ShakataGaNai 1y ago
Not even limbo. If you need an ultra low power SBC, Pi is there. But if you want the cheapest option, it ain't. A raspberry pi 5 8gb CanaKit. So pi, fan, microsd, cords, power. Comes in at $160 on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Starter-Kit-PRO/dp/B0CRSNCJ6Y https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Starter-Kit-PRO/dp/... You can get any number of Intel N150 MiniPC's with RAM, SSD and power cord for $140? https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-mini-pc-computer-n150/dp/B0CH81C4K3 https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-mini-pc-computer-n150/dp/B0CH8... Maybe less on sale. And an Intel N150 is going to score 2-3x on standard benchmarks what the RPi does. You can find older N100 based mini PC's for even less. The pi still has its place, again, for those ultra low power use cases. But for "I just want a small computer", it's not the option. Mostly because of economies of scale. Everything in the MiniPC's is made at thousands of times more scale than the RPi. Also.... in Chinese factories for significantly less cost to start with.
- arcane23 1y ago
  The way I used my Raspberry Pi boards fits into two categories, either always on providing some network service (with a shield), which usually benefits from very low power draw, either needing SPI/I2C/serial to connect to random hardware. For both of these use cases x86 miniPCs are not adequate. They either lack the GPIO header either they draw way more power than ~3-5W (onboard chipset, RAM etc draw extra power)
- dogleash 1y ago
  For a pi/SBC alternative, I've found used minipcs on ebay sold by the lot can have very cheap per-unit prices. The hardware may be 5+ years old, but that can still be way more than you need.
Mister_Snuggles 1y ago
Honestly, the big thing that the Pi has is the support and mindshare. Compared to many equivalents (e.g., the Banana Pi) you'll find much better documentation and have a much more polished experience with a Raspberry Pi. The only question, for me anyway, is how much value I put on that experience and whether the increased cost is worth it.
- joshuanapoli 1y ago
  Yes, this is it. When I'm experimenting, I'm happy to pay an extra $40 for the name-brand device that has 1000s of blog posts supporting it, since it's probably this community is going to help me be more successful and learn faster. I would reconsider the choice when I have a commercial product that I have some scale of production, where a few bucks off the BOM is important.
JohnBooty 1y ago
Respectfully, not from my angle! From a purely hardware perspective, I think it's always been in that "limbo" for almost every use case anyway. For a hobbyist even in Ye Olden Days (before there were other single board computers) you were always able to pull up Craiglist or walk to the thrift store and buy a $50 PC that vastly outperformed a Pi anyway. Underclock that PC and it could be a fanless power miser too, albeit not quite down to Pi levels. (Pretty sure I remember people clocking 900mhz P3's down to 500mhz fanless, that kind of thing. Still faster than a O.G. RPi...) So the Pi's hardware was really only a revelation if you needed that semi-embeddable form factor, or if you wanted to do something like manage a classroom of cheap low-performance PCs without the nightmare of managing a fleet of heterogeneous junk PCs. It was always all about the objectively awesome ecosystem of support and peripherals, and deciding whether that ecosystem mattered for you and your use case. Sometimes that ecosystem is a massive boon and sometimes it doesn't matter at all.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  Tangentially, it's always been annoying (and maybe slightly morbidly humorous) how the RPi has always remained a sort of barely-tolerable web browsing machine, even as the hardware's performance has massively increased, because the weight and complexity of web pages has also correspondingly increased.

randomtoast 1y ago

The Pi 5 may look like a bargain at first, but once you add all the extras needed to turn it into a mini PC, you are already in the starter price range of NUCs or used ThinkStations and ThinkPads on eBay.

Aurornis 1y ago

I think the mistake is the trend of trying to treat it like a mini computer. If you buy a Pi, stick an old SD card in it, plug it into an old USB charger you have lying around, and connect it to the network it's great for people learning how to use Linux, command line, and SSH. You can connect things to the headers and experiment with it as originally intended. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to try to treat it like a mini desktop computer. Like you said, it's very expensive to add on all of the accessories: High power adapter, M.2 hat, SSD, special HDMI cables, and a case for cooling. By the time you're done, you've spent as much as a cheap x86 computer that would outperform it and come with none of the software quirks. Just because you can outfit it will all of those things doesn't mean most people should. If you really want a mini computer, get a mini computer.

coffeecoders 1y ago
I think that’s the real distinction: the Pi isn’t interesting as a "cheap desktop", it’s interesting because of GPIO + the huge ecosystem of HATs, sensors, and weird little projects. If you just want a small, cheap computer, x86 boxes are better in every way. But if you want something you can hook wires to, fry once in a while, and find 20 blog posts about someone doing the same, Pi still has a niche that’s hard to replicate. All I’m saying is that Pi projects can get really expensive if you want to do anything beyond a basic install like Pi-hole and leave it as-is. Even simpler projects - say, connecting a motor or a servo require additional components like a power module or distribution board, which quickly adds up.
- epx 1y ago
  It is a bit expensive for this kind of "dangerous" experimenting. I wish there was a ESP32-like capable of running Linux. (Actually, there is: BeagleBoard. But these are even more expensive.)
  - volemo 1y ago
    What about Onion Omega? https://onion.io/omega2s/ https://onion.io/omega2s/

arp242 1y ago

So buy the desktop kit if that's what you want: https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-desktop-kit-us/?searchid=0&search_query=Raspberry+Pi+5 https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-5-desktop-kit-us/... Many people don't want/need all of it, and they can buy just the board without paying for stuff they don't need. This is not a deception. Stop spreading misinformation.

baq 1y ago

meanwhile any N100 box on aliexpress...

impure-aqua 1y ago

Unless you need the GPIO pins it is likely a better choice to go with one of the many x86 mini PCs on Amazon, although you need to ensure it is not totally no-name. I got a GMKtec G5 which is about ~3"x3"x2", has an Intel N97 CPU, 12GB of RAM, and a 512GB SSD (upgraded to a 2TB NVMe disk). No need to buy an additional power adapter (included, it's Type-C), HDMI adapters, or case/fan, either. I think it was about £110 with next-day shipping from Amazon. It has remarkable performance; I tried GNOME on NixOS and it felt instantly responsive for all general purpose desktop use (web browsing, vscodium with my linting extensions, etc). The only area of my everyday workflow in which it clearly fell behind my M1 Max MacBook Pro was in Rust compilation which is obviously expected - I was just shocked how close it was for everything outside of that. This is in huge contrast to Raspberry Pis which suck to use graphically, even with the Pi 5. It has happily been sitting on my desk running Forgejo, Mastodon, Vaultwarden, and acting as a personal storage server with that 2TB drive for the last ~6 months and I never even hear the fan. Sits at 0.1 load average, despite Mastodon with this many relays previously eating up the contabo VPS' CPU I was using quite handily.

_paulc 1y ago
If you need GPIO support on a mini-PC you can just use a cheap FT232H breakout [1] with either PyFTDI [2], which supports pretty much all the protocols you need (UART/GPIO/SPI/I2C), or alternatively use CircuitPython with Blinka [3] which gives you access to the CircuitPython drivers etc. [1] https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264 https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264 [2] https://pypi.org/project/pyftdi/ https://pypi.org/project/pyftdi/ [3] https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-on-any-computer-with-ft232h https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-on-any-computer-wit...
- arcane23 1y ago
  Still no I2S.
- bobmcnamara 1y ago
  Sell me the RP1 on PCIe!

NooneAtAll3 1y ago

what did I miss about EVs and gas savings?

gertrunde 1y ago

Hmm... As far as power cables go, I think I only ever bought one proper PSU for a Pi, the rest were all powered from various bits of discarded PSU here and there, and in one case via a 5-way usb power thing. (Heck - I think only 2 of the last 5 phones I've had came with a power supply). SSD - definitely nice to have, but I've not used one on a pi yet. For display cables - most of my pi's tend to be headless, and I pre-configure the network bits when I image the sd card, so I don't often use the display at all. Cooling case has become more necessary with the 5, although a heatsink alone can cope if airflow is good enough (e.g. if there's no case, of if the top is off). But yes, if you want to use it in a desktop replacement scenario, then the extras do add up quite a bit.

Hamuko 1y ago
I got a power-over-Ethernet splitter for my Pi 2B since being able to use PoE might be the only advantage it has over a mini PC. Otherwise it's just a very slow PC that takes 45 minutes to compile the single service I run on it. Not sure if any of the newer Pi boards can be powered with a simple splitter rather than a PoE hat, as the 2B is quite low power.

webdevver 1y ago

i suppose having a standardized hw platform, standardized first-class sw platform (raspbian), plus the entire internet's worth of raspberry pi discourse is ultimately what you're paying for. if the 'computer'-ey part of your project is a cost centre, the rpi starts to look attractive.

WorldPeas 1y ago

to me the wyse with an arduino ziptied to the top has always been a better pi than the pi (power savings nonwithstanding, at least I get SATA/NVme/Msata and x86's wide support)

theandrewbailey 1y ago

I work in the refurb division of an e-waste recycling company. It occurred to me last week that the mini desktops I list might be better and cheaper than a Raspberry Pi in a lot of situations. https://www.ebay.com/str/evolutionecycling/Mini-Desktops/_i.html?store_cat=45373346014 https://www.ebay.com/str/evolutionecycling/Mini-Desktops/_i....

klipklop 1y ago

I agree. The average Intel N150 system is significantly faster and cheaper since it includes stuff like PSU, storage and a case. The Pi is a poor value.

unnouinceput 1y ago
It's also significantly bigger too, so in applications where size matter the RPi wins.
arcane23 1y ago
But no GPIOs or similarly low total power draw.

dfxm12 1y ago

They're all standard connectors though. The product is hobbyist enough that I understand that I won't get extras with the device and that's fine since I know have some laying around already anyway. Kits are available for a little more, if you are just getting started and don't want to hunt for each individual component.

bluedino 1y ago

When I bought the original one, I also had to get a powered USB hub because it only had 2 ports and a lot of things would draw too much power and make it crash or power cycle.

nxobject 1y ago
I remember having to get composite cables!

m463 1y ago

It crossed the point where mini or barebone pcs are a better deal, unless you really want to use hardware/GPIOs/etc Tesla is another story. They used to sell complete cars, now they put in a touchscreen and have taken away the dashboard, the buttons, and now the turn signal and drive select stalks. It's not minimalist or cost savings, it is cheap.

bobmcnamara 1y ago

Ahem, MicroHDMI to HDMI. That miniHDMI to HDMI from Pi3 just won't do .

RShackleford 1y ago

[dead]

penguin_booze 1y ago

Tangent, but: a lot of these 'batteries included' world has come to an end. Airline tickets are another example: you should pay extra for check-in luggage; you should pay extra for seat selection; you should pay extra for using the toilet. OK, the last one, I just made up, but I wonder how long we have before that turns true.