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The main issue is podman support on Ubuntu. Ubuntu ships outdated podman versions that don't work out of the box. So I use podman v5, GitHub actions uses podman

The main issue is podman support on Ubuntu. Ubuntu ships outdated podman versions that don't work out of the box. So I use podman v5, GitHub actions uses podman v3, and my coworkers on Ubuntu use docker. So now my script must work with old podman, recent podman and docker

physicles 1y ago
I had this problem on the latest Pop OS LTS (I know, I know). Took about 4 hours to find the magic incantation that would let me install podman >= 4 without breaking anything else.
alyandon 1y ago
Yeah, the lack of an official upstream .deb that is kept up to date (like the official Docker .deb repos) for Ubuntu really kills using podman for most of my internal use cases.
rsyring 1y ago
Additionally, there aren't even any trusted repos out there building/publishing a .deb for it. The ones that I could find when I searched last were all outdated or indicated they were not going to keep moving forward. I could get over this. But, IMO, it lends itself to asking the "why" question. Why wouldn't Podman make installing it easier? And the only thing that makes sense to me is that RedHat doesn't want their dev effort supporting their competitor's products. That's a perfectly reasonable stance, they owe me nothing. But, it does make me feel that anything not in the RH ecosystem is going to be treated as a second-class citizen. That concerns me more than having to build my own debs.
- kiney 1y ago
  debian trixie has podman 5 packages in official repos. Good chance thqt those work on ubuntu
  - gm678 1y ago
    Also on Ubuntu 25.04, which I updated a homeserver too despite it not being LTS just for the easy access to Podman 5. Once Ubuntu 26.04 comes out the pain described by some sibling comments should end. Podman 4 is a workable version but 5.0 is where I'd say it really became a complete replacement for Docker and quadlets fully matured.
  - bityard 1y ago
    Not a good idea: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian (It's titled "Don't Break Debian" but might also be called "Don't Break Ubuntu" as it applies there just as well.)
- dathinab 1y ago
  > Why wouldn't Podman make installing it easier? What else can they do then having a package for every distro? https://podman.io/docs/installation#installing-on-linux https://podman.io/docs/installation#installing-on-linux Including instructions to build from source (including for Debian and Ubuntu): https://podman.io/docs/installation#building-from-source https://podman.io/docs/installation#building-from-source I don't know about this specific case but Debian and or Ubuntu having outdated software is a common Debian/Ubuntu problem which nearly always is cause by Debian/Ubuntu itself (funnily if it's outdated in Ubuntu doesn't mean it's outdated in Debian and the other way around ;=) ).
  - rsyring 1y ago
    > What else can they do... They can do what Docker and many other software providers do that are committed to cross OS functionality. They could build packages for those OSes. Example: https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/#install-using-the-repository https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/#install-using... The install instructions you link to are relying on the OS providers to build/package Podman as part of their OS release process. But that is notoriously out-of-date. You could argue, "Not Podman's Problem", and, in one sense, you'd be right. But, again, it leads to the question "Why wouldn't they make it their problem like so many other popular projects have?" and I believe I answered that previously.
    - dathinab 1y ago
      > build/package Podman as part of their OS release process. But that is notoriously out-of-date. providing duplicate/additional non official builds for other OS is - undermining the OSes package curation - confusing for the user - cost additional developer time, which for most OSS is fairly limited - for non vendorable system dependencies this additional dev time cost can be way higher in all kinds of surprising ways - obfuscate if a Linux distro is in-cable of properly maintaining their packages - lead to a splitting of the target OS specific eco system of software using this as a dependency etc. it's a lose lose lose for pretty much everyone involved so as long as you don't have a have a monetary reason that you must do it (like e.g. docker has) it's in my personal opinion a very dump thing to do I apologize for being a bit blunt but in the end why not use a Linux distribution which works with modern software development cycles? Blaming others for problems with the OS you decided to use when there are alternatives seems not very productive.
- gucci-on-fleek 1y ago
  They publish statically-linked binaries on GitHub [0], so to install it, you just need to download and unpack a single file. But you don't get any automatic updates like you would if they provided an apt repository. [0]: https://github.com/containers/podman/releases https://github.com/containers/podman/releases
  - rsyring 1y ago
    Wow! I can't believe I missed that. Thanks.
    - rsyring 1y ago
      Apparently, I didn't miss anything after all. :( See sibling comment above about them being just remote binaries.
  - Eduard 1y ago
    how come there is no podman Linux installer?
    - gucci-on-fleek 1y ago
      Well all the downstream distros have their own installers (apt, dnf, pacman, etc.). If you're compiling from source, then "make install" [0] should work as expected, and if you're downloading the pre-built binaries from GitHub [1], you just need to copy a single statically-linked binary into "/usr/local/bin". [0]: https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/c8183c50/Makefile#L892-L893 https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/c8183c50/Makefile#... [1]: https://github.com/containers/podman/releases https://github.com/containers/podman/releases
    - xylophile 1y ago
      You mean curl?
  - throwaway127482 1y ago
    Aren't the statically linked binaries just the remote client? i.e. they can't run containers on their own, right? In the past I think I wound up using https://github.com/mgoltzsche/podman-static https://github.com/mgoltzsche/podman-static because I could not get those podman static binaries to work
- c-hendricks 1y ago
  Is there something wrong with the version in homebrew? https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/podman https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/podman
troyvit 1y ago
This is my biggest problem too, and it's not just my problem but Podman's problem. Lack of name recognition is big for sure compared to Docker, but to me this version mismatch problem is higher on the list and more sure to keep Podman niche. Distros like Ubuntu always ship with older versions of software, it's sadly up to the maintainer to release newer versions, and Podman just doesn't seem interested in doing that. I don't know if it was their goal but it got me to use some RedHat derivative on my home server just to get a later version.
ramon156 1y ago
One of the reasons I don't use Ubuntu/debian is because it's just too damn slow with updates. I'm noticing that to this day it's still an issue. Yes I could use flatpack on ubuntu, however I feel like this is partly something Ubuntu/Debian should provide out-of-the-box
- rsyring 1y ago
  Ubuntu is committed to the Snap ecosystem and there is a lot of software that you can get from a snap if you need it to be evergreen.
- alyandon 1y ago
  LTS in general being slow to uptake new versions of software is a feature not a bug. It gives predictability at the cost of having to deal with older versions of software. With Ubuntu at least, some upstreams publish official PPAs so that you aren't stuck on the rapidly aging versions that Canonical picks when they cut an LTS release. Debian I found out recently has something similar now via "extrepo".
- skydhash 1y ago
  I use debian specifically for things to be kept the same. Once I got things setup, I don’t really want random updates to come and break things.
ac130kz 1y ago
That's an Ubuntu issue though, they ship lots of outdated software. Nginx, PHP, PostgreSQL, Podman, etc, the critical software that must be updated asap, even with stable versions they all require a PPA to be properly updated.
bityard 1y ago
Since Podman is open source, Ubuntu (and others) are able to package it and and update it themselves if they choose. But I think it's understandable that Red Hat would not want to pay their development teams to package their software for a direct competitor.
chanux 1y ago
You just effortlessly summarized one of the major headaches in tech in real world!
oakhaven 1y ago
Yes! I really like the idea of podman, but after 4 hours trying to make it work on 24.04, I reverted to Docker and compose. There is some dissonance in presenting Podman as a plug-in replacement for Docker, and making it so damn hard to install on (some category's) most popular contemporary LTS Linux distro.

physicles 1y ago

I had this problem on the latest Pop OS LTS (I know, I know). Took about 4 hours to find the magic incantation that would let me install podman >= 4 without breaking anything else.

alyandon 1y ago

Yeah, the lack of an official upstream .deb that is kept up to date (like the official Docker .deb repos) for Ubuntu really kills using podman for most of my internal use cases.

rsyring 1y ago

Additionally, there aren't even any trusted repos out there building/publishing a .deb for it. The ones that I could find when I searched last were all outdated or indicated they were not going to keep moving forward. I could get over this. But, IMO, it lends itself to asking the "why" question. Why wouldn't Podman make installing it easier? And the only thing that makes sense to me is that RedHat doesn't want their dev effort supporting their competitor's products. That's a perfectly reasonable stance, they owe me nothing. But, it does make me feel that anything not in the RH ecosystem is going to be treated as a second-class citizen. That concerns me more than having to build my own debs.

kiney 1y ago
debian trixie has podman 5 packages in official repos. Good chance thqt those work on ubuntu
- gm678 1y ago
  Also on Ubuntu 25.04, which I updated a homeserver too despite it not being LTS just for the easy access to Podman 5. Once Ubuntu 26.04 comes out the pain described by some sibling comments should end. Podman 4 is a workable version but 5.0 is where I'd say it really became a complete replacement for Docker and quadlets fully matured.
- bityard 1y ago
  Not a good idea: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian (It's titled "Don't Break Debian" but might also be called "Don't Break Ubuntu" as it applies there just as well.)
dathinab 1y ago
> Why wouldn't Podman make installing it easier? What else can they do then having a package for every distro? https://podman.io/docs/installation#installing-on-linux https://podman.io/docs/installation#installing-on-linux Including instructions to build from source (including for Debian and Ubuntu): https://podman.io/docs/installation#building-from-source https://podman.io/docs/installation#building-from-source I don't know about this specific case but Debian and or Ubuntu having outdated software is a common Debian/Ubuntu problem which nearly always is cause by Debian/Ubuntu itself (funnily if it's outdated in Ubuntu doesn't mean it's outdated in Debian and the other way around ;=) ).
- rsyring 1y ago
  > What else can they do... They can do what Docker and many other software providers do that are committed to cross OS functionality. They could build packages for those OSes. Example: https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/#install-using-the-repository https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/#install-using... The install instructions you link to are relying on the OS providers to build/package Podman as part of their OS release process. But that is notoriously out-of-date. You could argue, "Not Podman's Problem", and, in one sense, you'd be right. But, again, it leads to the question "Why wouldn't they make it their problem like so many other popular projects have?" and I believe I answered that previously.
  - dathinab 1y ago
    > build/package Podman as part of their OS release process. But that is notoriously out-of-date. providing duplicate/additional non official builds for other OS is - undermining the OSes package curation - confusing for the user - cost additional developer time, which for most OSS is fairly limited - for non vendorable system dependencies this additional dev time cost can be way higher in all kinds of surprising ways - obfuscate if a Linux distro is in-cable of properly maintaining their packages - lead to a splitting of the target OS specific eco system of software using this as a dependency etc. it's a lose lose lose for pretty much everyone involved so as long as you don't have a have a monetary reason that you must do it (like e.g. docker has) it's in my personal opinion a very dump thing to do I apologize for being a bit blunt but in the end why not use a Linux distribution which works with modern software development cycles? Blaming others for problems with the OS you decided to use when there are alternatives seems not very productive.
gucci-on-fleek 1y ago
They publish statically-linked binaries on GitHub [0], so to install it, you just need to download and unpack a single file. But you don't get any automatic updates like you would if they provided an apt repository. [0]: https://github.com/containers/podman/releases https://github.com/containers/podman/releases
- rsyring 1y ago
  Wow! I can't believe I missed that. Thanks.
  - rsyring 1y ago
    Apparently, I didn't miss anything after all. :( See sibling comment above about them being just remote binaries.
- Eduard 1y ago
  how come there is no podman Linux installer?
  - gucci-on-fleek 1y ago
    Well all the downstream distros have their own installers (apt, dnf, pacman, etc.). If you're compiling from source, then "make install" [0] should work as expected, and if you're downloading the pre-built binaries from GitHub [1], you just need to copy a single statically-linked binary into "/usr/local/bin". [0]: https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/c8183c50/Makefile#L892-L893 https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/c8183c50/Makefile#... [1]: https://github.com/containers/podman/releases https://github.com/containers/podman/releases
  - xylophile 1y ago
    You mean curl?
- throwaway127482 1y ago
  Aren't the statically linked binaries just the remote client? i.e. they can't run containers on their own, right? In the past I think I wound up using https://github.com/mgoltzsche/podman-static https://github.com/mgoltzsche/podman-static because I could not get those podman static binaries to work
c-hendricks 1y ago
Is there something wrong with the version in homebrew? https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/podman https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/podman

troyvit 1y ago

This is my biggest problem too, and it's not just my problem but Podman's problem. Lack of name recognition is big for sure compared to Docker, but to me this version mismatch problem is higher on the list and more sure to keep Podman niche. Distros like Ubuntu always ship with older versions of software, it's sadly up to the maintainer to release newer versions, and Podman just doesn't seem interested in doing that. I don't know if it was their goal but it got me to use some RedHat derivative on my home server just to get a later version.

ramon156 1y ago

One of the reasons I don't use Ubuntu/debian is because it's just too damn slow with updates. I'm noticing that to this day it's still an issue. Yes I could use flatpack on ubuntu, however I feel like this is partly something Ubuntu/Debian should provide out-of-the-box

rsyring 1y ago
Ubuntu is committed to the Snap ecosystem and there is a lot of software that you can get from a snap if you need it to be evergreen.
alyandon 1y ago
LTS in general being slow to uptake new versions of software is a feature not a bug. It gives predictability at the cost of having to deal with older versions of software. With Ubuntu at least, some upstreams publish official PPAs so that you aren't stuck on the rapidly aging versions that Canonical picks when they cut an LTS release. Debian I found out recently has something similar now via "extrepo".
skydhash 1y ago
I use debian specifically for things to be kept the same. Once I got things setup, I don’t really want random updates to come and break things.

ac130kz 1y ago

That's an Ubuntu issue though, they ship lots of outdated software. Nginx, PHP, PostgreSQL, Podman, etc, the critical software that must be updated asap, even with stable versions they all require a PPA to be properly updated.

bityard 1y ago

Since Podman is open source, Ubuntu (and others) are able to package it and and update it themselves if they choose. But I think it's understandable that Red Hat would not want to pay their development teams to package their software for a direct competitor.

chanux 1y ago

You just effortlessly summarized one of the major headaches in tech in real world!

oakhaven 1y ago

Yes! I really like the idea of podman, but after 4 hours trying to make it work on 24.04, I reverted to Docker and compose. There is some dissonance in presenting Podman as a plug-in replacement for Docker, and making it so damn hard to install on (some category's) most popular contemporary LTS Linux distro.