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He didn't say "contradiction," he said "kafkaesque," meaning "characteristic or reminiscent of the oppressive or nightmarish qualities of Franz Kafka's fictiona

He didn't say "contradiction," he said "kafkaesque," meaning "characteristic or reminiscent of the oppressive or nightmarish qualities of Franz Kafka's fictional world" (according to Google).

d_sem 1y ago
I'm being facetious, but life in the rust belt post industrial automation is kinda close. Google Maps a random Detroit east side neighborhood to see what I mean.
- capyba 1y ago
  But it wasn’t industrial automation that ruined Detroit. It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition.
  - dgfitz 1y ago
    > It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition. I contend it was when Dodge won the court case deciding that shareholders were more important than employees. It’s been a slow burn ever since.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    > It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition. A lot of their capability was due to them being better at automation. See: NUMMI
  - d_sem 1y ago
    Detroit's decline started as soon as assembly plants went one-story in the 40's-50's. There was further decline with the advent of robotics/computers in the 70's-80's, and 2000's with globalization.
muldvarp 1y ago
I don't see why it would be "kafkaesque" either. In fact I fail to see any connection between those two facts other than that both are decisions to allow or not allow something to happen by OpenAI.
- torium 1y ago
  If you don't see why this is oppressive, that's really a _you_ problem.
- MSFT_Edging 1y ago
  It's oppressive and nightmarish because we are at the mercy of large conglomerates tracking every move we make and kicking our livelyhoods out from under ourselves, while also censoring AI to make it more amenable to pro-corporate speech. Imagine if ChatGPT gave "do a luigi" as a solution to walmart tracking your face, gait, device fingerprints, location, and payment details, then offering that data to local police forces for the grand panopticon to use for parallel reconstruction. It would be unimaginable. That's because the only way for someone to be in the position to determine what is censored in the chat window, would be for them to be completely on the side of the data panopticon. There is no world where technology can empower the average user more than those who came in with means.
  - jajko 1y ago
    Yeah but what we are all whining here about (apart from folks working on llms and/or holding bigger stocks of such, a non-trivial and a vocal group here) has hit many other jobs already in the past. Very often thanks to our own work. It is funny, in worst way possible of course, that even our chairs are not as stable as we thought they are. Even automation can be somehow automated away. Remember all those posts stating how software engineering is harder, more unique, somehow more special than other engineering, or generally types of jobs? Seems like its time for some re-evaluation of that big ego statements... but maybe its just me.
    - gjsman-1000 1y ago
      There’s two kinds of programmers: 0. The people who got into it just as a job 1. The people who thought they could do it as art And #1 is getting thrashed and thrown out the window by the advent of AI coding tools, and the revelation companies didn’t give a darn about their art. Same with AI art tools and real artists. It even begs the question if programming should ever have been viewed as an art form. On that note, programmers collectively have never minded writing code that oppresses other people. Whether with constant distractions in Windows 11, building unnecessarily deadly weapons at Northrop Grumman, or automating the livelihoods of millions of “inferior” jobs. That was even a trend, “disrupting” traditional industries (with no regard to what happens to those employed in said traditional industry). Nice to see the shoe just a little on the other foot. For many of you here, keep in mind your big salary, came from disrupting and destroying other people’s salaries. Sleep well tonight and don’t complain when it’s your turn.

He didn't say "contradiction," he said "kafkaesque," meaning "characteristic or reminiscent of the oppressive or nightmarish qualities of Franz Kafka's fictional world" (according to Google).

d_sem 1y ago

I'm being facetious, but life in the rust belt post industrial automation is kinda close. Google Maps a random Detroit east side neighborhood to see what I mean.

capyba 1y ago
But it wasn’t industrial automation that ruined Detroit. It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition.
- dgfitz 1y ago
  > It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition. I contend it was when Dodge won the court case deciding that shareholders were more important than employees. It’s been a slow burn ever since.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  > It was the automakers’ failure to compete with highly capable foreign competition. A lot of their capability was due to them being better at automation. See: NUMMI
- d_sem 1y ago
  Detroit's decline started as soon as assembly plants went one-story in the 40's-50's. There was further decline with the advent of robotics/computers in the 70's-80's, and 2000's with globalization.

muldvarp 1y ago

I don't see why it would be "kafkaesque" either. In fact I fail to see any connection between those two facts other than that both are decisions to allow or not allow something to happen by OpenAI.

torium 1y ago
If you don't see why this is oppressive, that's really a _you_ problem.
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
It's oppressive and nightmarish because we are at the mercy of large conglomerates tracking every move we make and kicking our livelyhoods out from under ourselves, while also censoring AI to make it more amenable to pro-corporate speech. Imagine if ChatGPT gave "do a luigi" as a solution to walmart tracking your face, gait, device fingerprints, location, and payment details, then offering that data to local police forces for the grand panopticon to use for parallel reconstruction. It would be unimaginable. That's because the only way for someone to be in the position to determine what is censored in the chat window, would be for them to be completely on the side of the data panopticon. There is no world where technology can empower the average user more than those who came in with means.
- jajko 1y ago
  Yeah but what we are all whining here about (apart from folks working on llms and/or holding bigger stocks of such, a non-trivial and a vocal group here) has hit many other jobs already in the past. Very often thanks to our own work. It is funny, in worst way possible of course, that even our chairs are not as stable as we thought they are. Even automation can be somehow automated away. Remember all those posts stating how software engineering is harder, more unique, somehow more special than other engineering, or generally types of jobs? Seems like its time for some re-evaluation of that big ego statements... but maybe its just me.
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago
    There’s two kinds of programmers: 0. The people who got into it just as a job 1. The people who thought they could do it as art And #1 is getting thrashed and thrown out the window by the advent of AI coding tools, and the revelation companies didn’t give a darn about their art. Same with AI art tools and real artists. It even begs the question if programming should ever have been viewed as an art form. On that note, programmers collectively have never minded writing code that oppresses other people. Whether with constant distractions in Windows 11, building unnecessarily deadly weapons at Northrop Grumman, or automating the livelihoods of millions of “inferior” jobs. That was even a trend, “disrupting” traditional industries (with no regard to what happens to those employed in said traditional industry). Nice to see the shoe just a little on the other foot. For many of you here, keep in mind your big salary, came from disrupting and destroying other people’s salaries. Sleep well tonight and don’t complain when it’s your turn.