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Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGe

Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market. Many are typically still under drive train warranty. For example, the model 3 has only been on the market for about eight years and it came with eight years of warranty on the drive train. So, most of the second hand ones would still be under warranty. And most of the EV market only started growing after that. So this is true for many second hand EVs. And car batteries don't seem to spontaneously stop working right after the warranty expires either. So the risk is fairly low. They'll eventually degrade. But if you can pick up a car for a few thousand and then drive it for another 5-10 years, who cares? The fuel savings alone pay for the car after just a few years. Add the savings on maintenance and you are basically in the plus.

ACCount37 1y ago
Always check if that suspiciously cheap second hand EV you're buying had active battery cooling. A lot of the crap like the early Nissan Leafs didn't. And between that and the first gen EV battery pack design being shit in general, the battery pack just cooks itself. Its capacity falls off a cliff over time. This is where a lot of those early concerns about EV battery packs being hideously expensive consumables was coming from. If the battery pack is actively cooled, then, as a rule, it ages gracefully. If not? Oh boy.
- t_tsonev 1y ago
  This is not a general rule and many non-cooled and air-cooled batteries can hold up pretty well. The battery cooling becomes a limiting factor for DC charging, especially if multiple charging sessions are required per trip. The Leaf limited battery life is mainly to its battery chemistry (LMO), although it arguably doesn't go to great lengths to ensure thermal stability of the pack.
  - floxy 1y ago
    The Leaf has went through many battery changes through out the years. The Gen 2 (2018+ model years) were NMC (532?) and then there was a change again in 2023 (811?).
actionfromafar 1y ago
Big Asterisk on the maintenance though.
- blitzar 1y ago
  For £2,000 the maintenance plan is sending it to the scrap yard. Gordon Gekko would buy it, break it into its constituent parts and sell them off for £5,000.
sillyfluke 1y ago
Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them if they're driving over 500 miles on a trip. They regret buying the car they bought. When and if there is a sudden jump in range innovation that reaches the entire market and not just flagship brands, I don't see how these cars driven now won't be dead weight or dirt cheap. It seems super risky to keep one of these cars more than a couple of years.
- blitzar 1y ago
  > recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.
  - 62951413 1y ago
    A typical Bay Area commute (e.g. to SJ or San Mateo/Redwood City) is 40+ miles one way. A typical weekend drive (e.g. to Half Moon Bay or Sonoma) is a 100-mile roundtrip.
    - eloisant 1y ago
      Still less than 170 miles. Remember that you would usually charge at home so you start every day with a full battery.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    You can screech about averages and means all you want but the fact of the matter is that if you're exceeding your vehicle's capabilities on a weekly or monthly basis the inconvenience of ownership goes up exponentially. I do 100mi/day but I all but need the ability to make that 200 on a weekly basis and am doing a 300 on a monthly basis. With charging at work and home those numbers become 50, 150 and 250 between charges. So a "nicer" electric car is doable in the summer for me but it still falls on its face when those longer trips involve substantial cargo. So yeah, I'll keep driving rusted out minivans that make people clutch their pearls. For people who just want a dedicated commuting vehicle used EVs with 80% battery are a pretty good option.
KaiserPro 1y ago
Yeah that was basically my assesment. I bought a second hand Zoe in the UK mainly because they are so common, which means parts should be still around for a while yet. the leaf was an option, and I could have bought and upgraded the battery on an old one, but I think on balance the zoe was a better purchase for the same combined price. (for me, your mileage may vary) In terms of practicality, for where I live (suburban, edge of a large city) it works perfectly well. We also fairly regularly do longer journeys, assuming its not getaway rush hour, charging is fine on motorways and crucially getting better
- gambiting 1y ago
  We bought a VW e-Up here in the UK for the same reason - it shares all non-drivetrain parts with regular Ups so spare parts should be available forever and it's a very easy car to work on. Its easy 120-150 mile range is perfect for day to day use, I just charge it at home overnight. And I actually took it on a trip to the lake district few weeks back, no problem at all - 30 minute stop at a fast charger on the M6 both ways gave me way more juice than needed to get to my destinations. And it has an 8 year warranty on the battery, and VW lets me extend the main warranty for £200 a year, and a service is only due once ever 2 years and costs £90. What's not to like lol.

ACCount37 1y ago

Always check if that suspiciously cheap second hand EV you're buying had active battery cooling. A lot of the crap like the early Nissan Leafs didn't. And between that and the first gen EV battery pack design being shit in general, the battery pack just cooks itself. Its capacity falls off a cliff over time. This is where a lot of those early concerns about EV battery packs being hideously expensive consumables was coming from. If the battery pack is actively cooled, then, as a rule, it ages gracefully. If not? Oh boy.

t_tsonev 1y ago
This is not a general rule and many non-cooled and air-cooled batteries can hold up pretty well. The battery cooling becomes a limiting factor for DC charging, especially if multiple charging sessions are required per trip. The Leaf limited battery life is mainly to its battery chemistry (LMO), although it arguably doesn't go to great lengths to ensure thermal stability of the pack.
- floxy 1y ago
  The Leaf has went through many battery changes through out the years. The Gen 2 (2018+ model years) were NMC (532?) and then there was a change again in 2023 (811?).

actionfromafar 1y ago

Big Asterisk on the maintenance though.

blitzar 1y ago
For £2,000 the maintenance plan is sending it to the scrap yard. Gordon Gekko would buy it, break it into its constituent parts and sell them off for £5,000.

sillyfluke 1y ago

Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them if they're driving over 500 miles on a trip. They regret buying the car they bought. When and if there is a sudden jump in range innovation that reaches the entire market and not just flagship brands, I don't see how these cars driven now won't be dead weight or dirt cheap. It seems super risky to keep one of these cars more than a couple of years.

blitzar 1y ago
> recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.
- 62951413 1y ago
  A typical Bay Area commute (e.g. to SJ or San Mateo/Redwood City) is 40+ miles one way. A typical weekend drive (e.g. to Half Moon Bay or Sonoma) is a 100-mile roundtrip.
  - eloisant 1y ago
    Still less than 170 miles. Remember that you would usually charge at home so you start every day with a full battery.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  You can screech about averages and means all you want but the fact of the matter is that if you're exceeding your vehicle's capabilities on a weekly or monthly basis the inconvenience of ownership goes up exponentially. I do 100mi/day but I all but need the ability to make that 200 on a weekly basis and am doing a 300 on a monthly basis. With charging at work and home those numbers become 50, 150 and 250 between charges. So a "nicer" electric car is doable in the summer for me but it still falls on its face when those longer trips involve substantial cargo. So yeah, I'll keep driving rusted out minivans that make people clutch their pearls. For people who just want a dedicated commuting vehicle used EVs with 80% battery are a pretty good option.

KaiserPro 1y ago

Yeah that was basically my assesment. I bought a second hand Zoe in the UK mainly because they are so common, which means parts should be still around for a while yet. the leaf was an option, and I could have bought and upgraded the battery on an old one, but I think on balance the zoe was a better purchase for the same combined price. (for me, your mileage may vary) In terms of practicality, for where I live (suburban, edge of a large city) it works perfectly well. We also fairly regularly do longer journeys, assuming its not getaway rush hour, charging is fine on motorways and crucially getting better

gambiting 1y ago
We bought a VW e-Up here in the UK for the same reason - it shares all non-drivetrain parts with regular Ups so spare parts should be available forever and it's a very easy car to work on. Its easy 120-150 mile range is perfect for day to day use, I just charge it at home overnight. And I actually took it on a trip to the lake district few weeks back, no problem at all - 30 minute stop at a fast charger on the M6 both ways gave me way more juice than needed to get to my destinations. And it has an 8 year warranty on the battery, and VW lets me extend the main warranty for £200 a year, and a service is only due once ever 2 years and costs £90. What's not to like lol.