5 ms·

BMW kills Home Assistant integration to “protect security” [video]

risico 1y ago
I was actually quite surprised when I saw that I could connect my car to HA and that the integration was fully featured, with a lot of stats and entities exposed. I didn’t have time to make much use of it, but I’m still quite sad to see it go. It was nice to be able to glance at the current range, tire pressure, and overall status right from home. The same stats will be available in the application but, with this gone, we are again, an internet that is even more closed and fenced.
devn0ll 1y ago
As the product offering has changed after purchase. Would this not be grounds for returning the product for a full refund?
- sniffers 1y ago
  No? Can you return your pixel phone because some Gmail feature changed?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - ragebol 1y ago
    No. But maybe you should. The thing got less useful, thus less valuable.
  - zettabomb 1y ago
    This comparison is invalid. Gmail is a separate product from the phone, and importantly, not advertised as being included with the phone. BMW owners are paying separately for the API access, which has now been limited after the sale.
    - BoredPositron 1y ago
      You accept a license agreement and terms and conditions when you buy the car which lets them pretty much do anything they want with the software. Do you think these company are run by a bunch of 12 year olds and not their legal departments. How can you be so pedantic but at the same time so naive? Edit: I don't like it either.
      - lan321 1y ago
        The question is whether that should be allowed as products become more and more software based. Should software be treated (more) like hardware?
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - supermatt 1y ago
        > How can you be so pedantic but at the same time so naive? Wow, insulting others when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. In the EU a license agreement cant override your consumer rights. If the car was marketed as having a cardata feature and now that feature is restricted, under EU law you are entitled for it to be restored or fairly compensated - which could mean returning the car if it was a marketed feature and a major factor in the purchasing decision - although it’s more likely to be a monetary compensation for minor features. There’s even specific guidance for “digital elements” of products to cover things exactly like this. I haven’t returned a car, but I have either returned or requested compensation for other consumer items for similar reasons - and was compensated fairly given their use.
        BoredPositron 1y ago
        Go and sue them we will wait with anticipation for the ruling. Last sentence from my first comment stands and could be applied to you as well. Just had a look at their Terms and Conditions and they are pretty clear. >> Why should a car be different in regards to software than your washing machine, tv or iPhone?
  - numpad0 1y ago
    But you can probably cancel plans, send back binary to noreply@gmail.com, and get refund for services not yet rendered, that's same as returning the car with deduction for miles driven
- jjani 1y ago
  A full refund likely not, but compensation likely in countries with proper laws around this like Germany (especially apt since BMW) or Australia.
- fluidcruft 1y ago
  Would you expect a full refund from BMW if it were Home Assistant that removed the feature?
  - brador 1y ago
    Your contract is with the entity you paid. So technically, yeah.
    - fluidcruft 1y ago
      It just strikes me as immediately unreasonable from a common sense point-of-view. I'm also not convinced BMW specifically marketed integration with Home Assistant vs generic integrations with say Alexa or Google Home or whatever Apple calls theirs. And I'll expect the small print to say that third-party integrations are not guaranteed.
  - navigate8310 1y ago
    In that case, it's not BMW that removed the feature but the downstream independent dependency
mft_ 1y ago
…only to be rebranded and reintroduced in a few months for a modest monthly subscription? /s
rurban 1y ago
Do we really need Louis Rossman videos here? There must be some more serious article about that.
- leakycap 1y ago
  You could have posted an alternate link and added to the conversation. > There must be some more serious article about that. If only there was a searchable information highway of some sort that we could find the information we want rather than complain. Maybe someday.
a5c11 1y ago
I'd appreciate an article that I can read in peace while drinking my coffee in quiet.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Videos are great too because you can listen to them in the background while working , driving, riding the bus, jogging or working out in the gym, etc. It's not the kind of valuable critical piece of information that deserves 100% of my attention and brain processing power in order to warrant for me to dedicate time of my day just to read it and only it, that's for books with a story arc.
  - a5c11 1y ago
    When I'm working, I'm focused on the task. When I'm driving, I'm focused on the road. In the gym, I'm focused on doing exercises properly. I don't fancy listening to talks mindlessly. What's the point? If I need background that doesn't need my attention, I have a collection of various noises and electronic music. > dedicate time of my day Saving precious 5 minutes on reading, just to spend them later on Instagram reels.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      > I don't fancy listening to talks mindlessly. Fancy? Talks? Is this the 1800s? I don't like winding up my gramophone, either...
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        I think he's just a britbong
      - a5c11 1y ago
        Do you need a few emojis and self-censoring to understand that sentence?
    - dazilcher 1y ago
BrandoElFollito 1y ago
This is the best way to say "our security sucks". Thanks OP for the post,I will use at a conference yet another example of companies that are not competent in security and in case of problems go the legal way or cut stuff.

I was actually quite surprised when I saw that I could connect my car to HA and that the integration was fully featured, with a lot of stats and entities exposed. I didn’t have time to make much use of it, but I’m still quite sad to see it go. It was nice to be able to glance at the current range, tire pressure, and overall status right from home. The same stats will be available in the application but, with this gone, we are again, an internet that is even more closed and fenced.

devn0ll 1y ago

As the product offering has changed after purchase. Would this not be grounds for returning the product for a full refund?

sniffers 1y ago
No? Can you return your pixel phone because some Gmail feature changed?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ragebol 1y ago
  No. But maybe you should. The thing got less useful, thus less valuable.
- zettabomb 1y ago
  This comparison is invalid. Gmail is a separate product from the phone, and importantly, not advertised as being included with the phone. BMW owners are paying separately for the API access, which has now been limited after the sale.
  - BoredPositron 1y ago
    You accept a license agreement and terms and conditions when you buy the car which lets them pretty much do anything they want with the software. Do you think these company are run by a bunch of 12 year olds and not their legal departments. How can you be so pedantic but at the same time so naive? Edit: I don't like it either.
    - lan321 1y ago
      The question is whether that should be allowed as products become more and more software based. Should software be treated (more) like hardware?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - supermatt 1y ago
      > How can you be so pedantic but at the same time so naive? Wow, insulting others when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. In the EU a license agreement cant override your consumer rights. If the car was marketed as having a cardata feature and now that feature is restricted, under EU law you are entitled for it to be restored or fairly compensated - which could mean returning the car if it was a marketed feature and a major factor in the purchasing decision - although it’s more likely to be a monetary compensation for minor features. There’s even specific guidance for “digital elements” of products to cover things exactly like this. I haven’t returned a car, but I have either returned or requested compensation for other consumer items for similar reasons - and was compensated fairly given their use.
      - BoredPositron 1y ago
        Go and sue them we will wait with anticipation for the ruling. Last sentence from my first comment stands and could be applied to you as well. Just had a look at their Terms and Conditions and they are pretty clear. >> Why should a car be different in regards to software than your washing machine, tv or iPhone?
- numpad0 1y ago
  But you can probably cancel plans, send back binary to noreply@gmail.com, and get refund for services not yet rendered, that's same as returning the car with deduction for miles driven
jjani 1y ago
A full refund likely not, but compensation likely in countries with proper laws around this like Germany (especially apt since BMW) or Australia.
fluidcruft 1y ago
Would you expect a full refund from BMW if it were Home Assistant that removed the feature?
- brador 1y ago
  Your contract is with the entity you paid. So technically, yeah.
  - fluidcruft 1y ago
    It just strikes me as immediately unreasonable from a common sense point-of-view. I'm also not convinced BMW specifically marketed integration with Home Assistant vs generic integrations with say Alexa or Google Home or whatever Apple calls theirs. And I'll expect the small print to say that third-party integrations are not guaranteed.
- navigate8310 1y ago
  In that case, it's not BMW that removed the feature but the downstream independent dependency

mft_ 1y ago

…only to be rebranded and reintroduced in a few months for a modest monthly subscription? /s

rurban 1y ago

Do we really need Louis Rossman videos here? There must be some more serious article about that.

leakycap 1y ago
You could have posted an alternate link and added to the conversation. > There must be some more serious article about that. If only there was a searchable information highway of some sort that we could find the information we want rather than complain. Maybe someday.

a5c11 1y ago

I'd appreciate an article that I can read in peace while drinking my coffee in quiet.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Videos are great too because you can listen to them in the background while working , driving, riding the bus, jogging or working out in the gym, etc. It's not the kind of valuable critical piece of information that deserves 100% of my attention and brain processing power in order to warrant for me to dedicate time of my day just to read it and only it, that's for books with a story arc.
- a5c11 1y ago
  When I'm working, I'm focused on the task. When I'm driving, I'm focused on the road. In the gym, I'm focused on doing exercises properly. I don't fancy listening to talks mindlessly. What's the point? If I need background that doesn't need my attention, I have a collection of various noises and electronic music. > dedicate time of my day Saving precious 5 minutes on reading, just to spend them later on Instagram reels.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    > I don't fancy listening to talks mindlessly. Fancy? Talks? Is this the 1800s? I don't like winding up my gramophone, either...
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      I think he's just a britbong
    - a5c11 1y ago
      Do you need a few emojis and self-censoring to understand that sentence?
  - dazilcher 1y ago

BrandoElFollito 1y ago

This is the best way to say "our security sucks". Thanks OP for the post,I will use at a conference yet another example of companies that are not competent in security and in case of problems go the legal way or cut stuff.