3 ms·

Neither? it's quite clear they're suggesting improving assessments. This will lead to upstream learning not being gamed.

godelski 1y ago
So the option is to what, stop handing out homework? That would result in less education time. To clarify, I mean education time, not classroom time.
- djoldman 1y ago
  Continue to assign homework. Tie the homework to in class assessment such that if a student can do well on homework, without AI assistance, they are expected to do well on tests conducted in class, again without AI assistance. Set homework grades to be a relatively small percentage of the final grade. With the above framework, a student is incentivized to complete homework. If they cheat themselves and use AI, they'll do badly on the tests and badly in the class overall. Tell the students about the above rationale. Tell them that they're not to use AI for homework, that you can't stop them from using AI, but that by using AI, all they get is a perfect score on homework and probably a bad overall grade.
  - godelski 1y ago
    I think this is easier said than done. It pretty much sounds like you're suggesting there are pop-quizes. We've seen that style of teaching before. IME it isn't as effective. Though I'm quite suspect that a big part of that is simply coordination with other classes. All it takes is one teacher who thinks their class is the most important and not give enough wiggle room so that there is room for triage and expected life events. Just because there's theoretically enough time does not mean there is enough time. Think of it like lifeboats. Do you want enough lifeboats so that each person has a spot or do you want extra lifeboats so that in case one gets destroyed or in case a person is unable to make it to the other lifeboat that they will still survive? Over optimization ignores the noise inherent to reality.
    - thedevilslawyer 1y ago
      It is easily done as well. In-class pen and paper assessments are a reality, and execution is well known. No rocket science. Don't allow assessments to be gamed and everything will follow.
      - godelski 1y ago
        > Don't allow assessments to be gamed and everything will follow. That's the hard part... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
- lmm 1y ago
  Homework has never been shown to improve education. It gets given out because parents demand it.
  - godelski 1y ago
    I'm going to need some serious citation here. Through my personal experience, homework and at home studying were critical to my education. I would not have made it through any of my degrees (B.S., M.S., PhD) by just attending lecture (PhD doesn't even have lectures!), despite this being sufficient for high school and early college. Though, that does not mean this was a good thing as it only means the education was insufficient. So... citation needed

godelski 1y ago

So the option is to what, stop handing out homework? That would result in less education time. To clarify, I mean education time, not classroom time.

djoldman 1y ago
Continue to assign homework. Tie the homework to in class assessment such that if a student can do well on homework, without AI assistance, they are expected to do well on tests conducted in class, again without AI assistance. Set homework grades to be a relatively small percentage of the final grade. With the above framework, a student is incentivized to complete homework. If they cheat themselves and use AI, they'll do badly on the tests and badly in the class overall. Tell the students about the above rationale. Tell them that they're not to use AI for homework, that you can't stop them from using AI, but that by using AI, all they get is a perfect score on homework and probably a bad overall grade.
- godelski 1y ago
  I think this is easier said than done. It pretty much sounds like you're suggesting there are pop-quizes. We've seen that style of teaching before. IME it isn't as effective. Though I'm quite suspect that a big part of that is simply coordination with other classes. All it takes is one teacher who thinks their class is the most important and not give enough wiggle room so that there is room for triage and expected life events. Just because there's theoretically enough time does not mean there is enough time. Think of it like lifeboats. Do you want enough lifeboats so that each person has a spot or do you want extra lifeboats so that in case one gets destroyed or in case a person is unable to make it to the other lifeboat that they will still survive? Over optimization ignores the noise inherent to reality.
  - thedevilslawyer 1y ago
    It is easily done as well. In-class pen and paper assessments are a reality, and execution is well known. No rocket science. Don't allow assessments to be gamed and everything will follow.
    - godelski 1y ago
      > Don't allow assessments to be gamed and everything will follow. That's the hard part... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
lmm 1y ago
Homework has never been shown to improve education. It gets given out because parents demand it.
- godelski 1y ago
  I'm going to need some serious citation here. Through my personal experience, homework and at home studying were critical to my education. I would not have made it through any of my degrees (B.S., M.S., PhD) by just attending lecture (PhD doesn't even have lectures!), despite this being sufficient for high school and early college. Though, that does not mean this was a good thing as it only means the education was insufficient. So... citation needed