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Other countries managed to regulate their banks to innovate just fine without blockchain technology, though. It doesn’t always need a startup to disrupt somethi

by 9dev 1y ago

Other countries managed to regulate their banks to innovate just fine without blockchain technology, though. It doesn’t always need a startup to disrupt something by flipping the finger to lawmakers. Sometimes humble regulation is enough. Take SEPA as an example: I can transfer money free of charge to any European bank account, in a few seconds.

input_sh 1y ago
To be fair, European Central Bank also wants to introduce its own official Euro-backed "stablecoin" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro), mostly because they are scared of the posibility that Dollar-backed stablecoins could make Euros less relevant in the future (https://www.politico.eu/article/lagardes-euro-moment-busted-by-stablecoins/ https://www.politico.eu/article/lagardes-euro-moment-busted-...).
latchkey 1y ago
Small money is fine. Any big transaction will get flagged and potentially delayed. I don't know about you, but I'd rather use a system that allows me to do what I want with my funds without anyone else controlling it.
- degamad 1y ago
  > I don't know about you, but I'd rather use a system that allows me to do what I want with my funds without anyone else controlling it. How do we know that this unusual transaction is you doing what you want and not someone else controlling and defrauding you? A small well-understood amount of friction that significantly reduces everyone's risk is not an attempt to control your funds. Old systems with arbitrary delays based on twentieth century processes should be replaced, but not everything needs immediate infinite speed to be valuable.
  - latchkey 1y ago
    > How do we know that this unusual transaction is you doing what you want and not someone else controlling and defrauding you? That's what they'd like you to believe, but fact of the matter is that you're still not protected. For example, at my last company, the finance department was phished into changing a bank account number and transferred $50k to another account. Bank just shrugged.
    - throwaway2037 1y ago
      Did they get the 50K back?
      - latchkey 1y ago
        Not to my knowledge.
- vintermann 1y ago
  Do you want to live in a world where everyone else can do whatever they want with their funds without anyone else controlling it, though? Seems pretty optimistic for anyone to think they'd do well in that world.
  - latchkey 1y ago
    I want to live in a world where responsible, law abiding citizens can use their money however they choose. In the US, we already have credit scores, a system meant to reflect some sort of trustworthiness. Right now, it mostly determines your interest rates and access to capital. But why not extend that trust to granting people more freedom in how they use their funds? If I want a large loan from my bank, I’m forced to provide endless paperwork and deal with people, despite having a great credit score. In DeFi, I just post collateral and instantly borrow against it. No gatekeepers, no conversations. These limitations become even more obvious if you’re a nomad or frequent traveler. Suddenly you’re not just facing your local government, you’re up against borders and layers of extra regulation.
    - habinero 1y ago
      This sentence: > Why not extend that trust to granting people more freedom in how they use their funds? followed immediately by: > If I want a large loan from my bank with absolutely zero irony is very funny.
      - latchkey 1y ago
        I don't understand the humor. Please explain.
    - topranks 1y ago
      “Post the collateral” I’m fairly sure if you want a bank loan and are prepared to lodge cash in the bank to secure it they won’t need too much paperwork. Usually people getting loans don’t have the funds in cash already. Defi is nothing like that its currency speculation at best.
sunshine-o 1y ago
> Sometimes humble regulation is enough. Take SEPA as an example: I can transfer money free of charge to any European bank account, in a few seconds. SEPA was a success but it was only a first step to modernise the banking system. The following regulations/directives like PSD2 failed in my opinion. The ECB also had one of those CBDC built much earlier than people have been told. They already had something quite advanced around 2020, with a optimist launch date in 2022 I believe. It obviously failed miserably and I read a few weeks ago that they are "exploring Ethereum and Solana for digital euro launch". I would be curious what happened exactly but my guess is the banks just said "NO WAY".
- Kbelicius 1y ago
  > The ECB also had one of those CBDC built much earlier than people have been told. They already had something quite advanced around 2020, with a optimist launch date in 2022 I believe. > It obviously failed miserably They had a CBDC but hid it from everyone... but then somehow it failed miserably. If it wasn't released, how? They even had it before they decided to have it (2021). This seems just like a load of bullshit.
  - sunshine-o 1y ago
    When they saw Bitcoin and Ethereum they obviously understood a great disruption was coming and acted on it. SWIFT too. A Central Bank do not share everything they consider/plan with the public. It is not really hidden or secret, but they also do not make a press release about it. Also if they are fundamentally gonna transform our banking system they better start early because a lot of things can go wrong. I estimate the time to build such a system is about 10 years if everything goes well. I do not know exactly what went wrong, my guess is the banks pushed back as much as they could because most of them would have been made irrelevant under that model. Now they are talking about Ethereum and Solana because they understood they have to fight against the Dollar in this arena.
- Saline9515 1y ago
  SEPA allows this in theory; in practice, for amounts >10k€, most banks will require you to provide proofs for the transaction due to the maximalist AML laws in the EU. My bank requires me to download a PDF on their website, print it, fill it out by hand, scan it, and then send it by mail. After a few days, someone will decide to allow it (or not). If it is refused, I don't get any reason why and have to call the client service for clues.
snitty 1y ago
US banks literally collapsed the world financial system in 2008. You don't deserve humble regulation after that. They got, and they deserved, the Dodd-Frank Act, which has now been significantly rolled back.

by 9dev 1y ago

input_sh 1y ago

To be fair, European Central Bank also wants to introduce its own official Euro-backed "stablecoin" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro), mostly because they are scared of the posibility that Dollar-backed stablecoins could make Euros less relevant in the future (https://www.politico.eu/article/lagardes-euro-moment-busted-by-stablecoins/ https://www.politico.eu/article/lagardes-euro-moment-busted-...).

latchkey 1y ago

Small money is fine. Any big transaction will get flagged and potentially delayed. I don't know about you, but I'd rather use a system that allows me to do what I want with my funds without anyone else controlling it.

degamad 1y ago
> I don't know about you, but I'd rather use a system that allows me to do what I want with my funds without anyone else controlling it. How do we know that this unusual transaction is you doing what you want and not someone else controlling and defrauding you? A small well-understood amount of friction that significantly reduces everyone's risk is not an attempt to control your funds. Old systems with arbitrary delays based on twentieth century processes should be replaced, but not everything needs immediate infinite speed to be valuable.
- latchkey 1y ago
  > How do we know that this unusual transaction is you doing what you want and not someone else controlling and defrauding you? That's what they'd like you to believe, but fact of the matter is that you're still not protected. For example, at my last company, the finance department was phished into changing a bank account number and transferred $50k to another account. Bank just shrugged.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    Did they get the 50K back?
    - latchkey 1y ago
      Not to my knowledge.
vintermann 1y ago
Do you want to live in a world where everyone else can do whatever they want with their funds without anyone else controlling it, though? Seems pretty optimistic for anyone to think they'd do well in that world.
- latchkey 1y ago
  I want to live in a world where responsible, law abiding citizens can use their money however they choose. In the US, we already have credit scores, a system meant to reflect some sort of trustworthiness. Right now, it mostly determines your interest rates and access to capital. But why not extend that trust to granting people more freedom in how they use their funds? If I want a large loan from my bank, I’m forced to provide endless paperwork and deal with people, despite having a great credit score. In DeFi, I just post collateral and instantly borrow against it. No gatekeepers, no conversations. These limitations become even more obvious if you’re a nomad or frequent traveler. Suddenly you’re not just facing your local government, you’re up against borders and layers of extra regulation.
  - habinero 1y ago
    This sentence: > Why not extend that trust to granting people more freedom in how they use their funds? followed immediately by: > If I want a large loan from my bank with absolutely zero irony is very funny.
    - latchkey 1y ago
      I don't understand the humor. Please explain.
  - topranks 1y ago
    “Post the collateral” I’m fairly sure if you want a bank loan and are prepared to lodge cash in the bank to secure it they won’t need too much paperwork. Usually people getting loans don’t have the funds in cash already. Defi is nothing like that its currency speculation at best.

sunshine-o 1y ago

> Sometimes humble regulation is enough. Take SEPA as an example: I can transfer money free of charge to any European bank account, in a few seconds. SEPA was a success but it was only a first step to modernise the banking system. The following regulations/directives like PSD2 failed in my opinion. The ECB also had one of those CBDC built much earlier than people have been told. They already had something quite advanced around 2020, with a optimist launch date in 2022 I believe. It obviously failed miserably and I read a few weeks ago that they are "exploring Ethereum and Solana for digital euro launch". I would be curious what happened exactly but my guess is the banks just said "NO WAY".

Kbelicius 1y ago
> The ECB also had one of those CBDC built much earlier than people have been told. They already had something quite advanced around 2020, with a optimist launch date in 2022 I believe. > It obviously failed miserably They had a CBDC but hid it from everyone... but then somehow it failed miserably. If it wasn't released, how? They even had it before they decided to have it (2021). This seems just like a load of bullshit.
- sunshine-o 1y ago
  When they saw Bitcoin and Ethereum they obviously understood a great disruption was coming and acted on it. SWIFT too. A Central Bank do not share everything they consider/plan with the public. It is not really hidden or secret, but they also do not make a press release about it. Also if they are fundamentally gonna transform our banking system they better start early because a lot of things can go wrong. I estimate the time to build such a system is about 10 years if everything goes well. I do not know exactly what went wrong, my guess is the banks pushed back as much as they could because most of them would have been made irrelevant under that model. Now they are talking about Ethereum and Solana because they understood they have to fight against the Dollar in this arena.
Saline9515 1y ago
SEPA allows this in theory; in practice, for amounts >10k€, most banks will require you to provide proofs for the transaction due to the maximalist AML laws in the EU. My bank requires me to download a PDF on their website, print it, fill it out by hand, scan it, and then send it by mail. After a few days, someone will decide to allow it (or not). If it is refused, I don't get any reason why and have to call the client service for clues.

snitty 1y ago

US banks literally collapsed the world financial system in 2008. You don't deserve humble regulation after that. They got, and they deserved, the Dodd-Frank Act, which has now been significantly rolled back.